When did 2a production stop

[marko66]

Hi All

I have a trayback that is a 2a and the plate on it says 7/71 from memory. I was wondering how much longer they made 2a's for

It has a perkins engine and series three type guards and 2a bonnet hinges and no salisbury diff.

Thanks and Regards Mark

[Slunnie]

...

The 6 cylinder bonneted control came out in 1967 although you would be wise to avoid the early ones as their brake circuil was an in-line booster. The yellow ones like your little specimen came out in about 1969 and the colour was specific to the 6 cyl. There should even be a badge on the grill with the word "six" this was an Au only badge.

The Salisbury was introduced in 1971 with the very last of the SIIa. My personal feeling is that these models were the best of the Series Land Rovers ever made. They had the wide headlights, pedal mounted master-vac, 3" wide front brake drums, cable operated wipermotors, Salisbury rear ends and you could still hose them out after a weekend playing in the mud. While they still had a crash box on 1st and 2nd, it was the strongest of the LR boxes until they fixed the problems of the all synchro boxes in about 1976.

Give me a late SIIa 109 Landy any day! :)

Diana


Headlights moved to the guards in 68/69
6cyl was fitted from 1967
I think a few 1971ish vintage IIAs got sals axles.

Either you have a very late model IIA (in which case maybe worth preserving/selling to a restorer) or you have a bitsa - in which case - do your worst!!!

I once saw a 1978 Series 3 fitted with a IIA firewall (obviously the original had rusted...).

[JDNSW]

Sounds like it was one of the last. The Series 2a production ended with the (northern) summer plant closure in about July 1971, although local production would have continued beyond this, as they would have been shipping 2a CKD kits right up till then - and they would not have arrived in Sydney until about August at least. I don't know how long from then until it came off the assembly line, but probably not very long. So I'm guessing that the last 2a assembled in Australia would have been dated 9/71.

The salisbury diff was never standard on the 2a, but became an option in late production, although I would guess most 2as fitted with them got them later in life, so unless you knew the history or had production records it would be hard to be sure a salisbury diff was original.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The Australian compliance plate is affixed when a built vehicle is dispatched from the manufacturers holding yard to a distributor and frequently does not indicate the actual date of manufacture/assembly.

The last 109" SIIa before the first SIII 109 in the Grenville books is 35201458H and this vehicle was delivered to the original customer 25/09/1972.

According to Classic Land Rovers VIN calculator the H suffix was in use from February 1971 to End of production in October 1971.

AFAIK the H suffix related to SIIA vehicles which had amongst other things Salisbury diffs in the 109" wheelbase models. (Contrary to John's comment, the Salisbury rear diff is listed in the Jan 1972 SIIA Parts Catalogue (Part No. 608024 - first issue) in section 08.67 and described in the contents page as "Rear axle (interim)" all the components are the same as the SIII models. In the mid 1970's I had one of these late 1971 SIIA suffix H vehicles with a Salisbury diff and AFAIK I was the second owner and first private owner.)

The SIIa never had SIII guards. Models with "G" and "H" suffix had the headlamps in the front of the front mudguards as continued into SIII but they didn't have the hole for the heater/blower intake in the LHS side mudguard panel so distinctive of the SIII models. The radiator support panel is also slightly different in the SIIA G and H suffix to that of the SIII. According to Classic the "G" suffix commenced in April 1969 and finished in February 1971.

As John says, changes to vehicles assembled in Australia usually happened some weeks later than UK assembled vehicles.

BTW the first SIII 109 started appearing in the Grenville motors books in May 1972. However it seems at this time Government orders were delivered with runout SIIa stock while private customers were delivered with SIII models.

Diana

Addit: Interesting things you find. on page 08.70 of R608024 is a comment at the top of the page:
"Mischellaneous changes to accommodate the all synchromesh gearbox and salisbury axle on Land-Rover Series IIA models."

The items include different chassis numbers for all the different variants.

[JDNSW]

Contrary to Diana's comment above, according to the parts books, the inner and outer guards are in fact identical for Series 2a suffix G and F and Series 3, except for the outer guard on Series 3 where fitted with the optional fresh air heater. The fact that no Series 3s appear to have been sold in Australia without the heater does not mean this is a necessary distinguishing feature, and I have heard of at least one S3 (possibly imported) without a heater (or hole), and in any case all the panels except the outer LH one are the same as the late 2a.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

John

So you are saying that SIII have late SIIA guards are you?

If they were first fitted to SIIA then that's what they stay. The fact that SIII used them also is irrelevant.

Otherwise it's a bit like saying that someone's father got their eye colour or whatever from their kids.

Just being pedantic I know. :)

Diana

[Slunnie]

Thanks Diana, that explains a bit about my IIA ute in that case. When I googled up the IIa production run dates last night it indicated the change over from IIa to III was in 1971, but I knew this is what I had under the bonnet. It was complied 6 months after the last IIa produced.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/195.jpg

[bobslandies]

Sounds like it was one of the last. The Series 2a production ended with the (northern) summer plant closure in about July 1971, although local production would have continued beyond this, as they would have been shipping 2a CKD kits right up till then - and they would not have arrived in Sydney until about August at least. I don't know how long from then until it came off the assembly line, but probably not very long. So I'm guessing that the last 2a assembled in Australia would have been dated 9/71.

The salisbury diff was never standard on the 2a, but became an option in late production, although I would guess most 2as fitted with them got them later in life, so unless you knew the history or had production records it would be hard to be sure a salisbury diff was original.

John

From June 1969 all Land Rovers were provided with larger single-ended 27mm* (1 and 1/16" AF) outside hex wheel nuts but with 9/16" BSF thread that were introduced to "provide increased contact, and to prevent the possibility of slack wheel nuts caused by hexagon corners digging in". Part # 576103. (Land Rover Service Newsletter Vol 3 No 55 June 1969).
* It actually says 18mm in the Newsletter but this is an error and the size is 1 and 1/16"AF or 27mm.
There is an uncommon smaller hex single ended wheel nut threaded 9/16"BSF but hex size is the same as the earlier double-ended wheel nuts - 15/16"AF or more correctly 9/16BS / 1/2W socket size. (If you must use a metric socket a 24mm one is the closest fit).

The Salisbury Transmission Limited rear axle assembly #576764 was introduced in February 1971 to vehicles suffix letter "H" for "Land Rover 109 Bonneted Control Models for certain territories in the Export Market and Station Wagons only in the UK." Axles are numbered 91100001A onwards.#
All Salisburys were fitted with 16mm wheel studs and 27mm hex size wheel nuts. (Land Rover Service Newsletters Vol 3 No 21A; Vol 3, No 30, Dec 1971).

# A later Land Rover Service Information, Vol 1, No 2, Item 7 corrects this information;"the axles are actually numbered in the range commencing H71/43 onwards"

In early 1971 metric wheel studs and nuts with the same outside hex size (27mm) but threaded 16mm to fit 16mm wheel studs were introduced. (Land Rover Service Newsletter Vol 3 No 22, Item 135 - Mar 1971). The larger holed brake drums were introduced at this time. This means that the last 2As should have metric studs and wheel nuts. Later Land Rovers and Range Rovers fitted with steel wheels use these wheel nuts also.

With the introduction of the Series III in September 1971 all 109 models were fitted with the Salisbury axle, all Series III wheel studs and nuts should be metric. Series III vehicles began arriving in Australia in March/April 1972.

Both "G" and "H" suffix Series 2A 109"WB were imported in the latter half of 1971 and early 1972 and I remember vehicles assembled at Pressed Metal Corporation, both 4 cyl and 6 cyl engines and different body styles - Hardtop and Chassis Cab - fitted with the Salisbury axle.

Bob

[JDNSW]

John

So you are saying that SIII have late SIIA guards are you?

If they were first fitted to SIIA then that's what they stay. The fact that SIII used them also is irrelevant.

Otherwise it's a bit like saying that someone's father got their eye colour or whatever from their kids.

Just being pedantic I know. :)

Diana

Yes, you are right of course. On both counts - they are late S2a guards - and you are being pedantic! :)

John

[bobslandies]

Thanks Diana, that explains a bit about my IIA ute in that case. When I googled up the IIa production run dates last night it indicated the change over from IIa to III was in 1971, but I knew this is what I had under the bonnet. It was complied 6 months after the last IIa produced.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/02/195.jpg

Simon,

Vehicle 34712523H, engine no 34524020B 6 Cyl Chassis Cab, Salisbury Axle, supplied 22.5.72 in a batch to the Grain Elevator Board, Registration No EIC129, fitted with Dunlop RTM (Road Track Major) tyres, keys 916 and 701.

Afraid the Grenville records can't help with anything else;):D

Bob

[JDNSW]

Thanks Diana, that explains a bit about my IIA ute in that case. When I googled up the IIa production run dates last night it indicated the change over from IIa to III was in 1971, but I knew this is what I had under the bonnet. It was complied 6 months after the last IIa produced.


Not unusual with any locally assembled or even imported car - same applies to my 110, compliance late 1986, but chassis number (and features such as lift up door handles and four speed box) says beginning of 1986.

John

[Slunnie]

Simon,

Vehicle 34712523H, engine no 34524020B 6 Cyl Chassis Cab, Salisbury Axle, supplied 22.5.72 in a batch to the Grain Elevator Board, Registration No EIC129, fitted with Dunlop RTM (Road Track Major) tyres, keys 916 and 701.

Afraid the Grenville records can't help with anything else;):D

Bob
:eek:

That is just amazing Bob! Thank you very much for that info and of course it matches up perfectly with everything (or little) that I know about the vehicle. I should try for that plate again if it is ever reregisterd.

[RobHay]

Contrary to Diana's comment above, according to the parts books, the inner and outer guards are in fact identical for Series 2a suffix G and F and Series 3, except for the outer guard on Series 3 where fitted with the optional fresh air heater. The fact that no Series 3s appear to have been sold in Australia without the heater does not mean this is a necessary distinguishing feature, and I have heard of at least one S3 (possibly imported) without a heater (or hole), and in any case all the panels except the outer LH one are the same as the late 2a.

John


....and the SIII's had the cutout in the Right Wing for the brake booster

[bobslandies]

Addit: Interesting things you find. on page 08.70 of R608024 is a comment at the top of the page:
"Mischellaneous changes to accommodate the all synchromesh gearbox and salisbury axle on Land-Rover Series IIA models."

The items include different chassis numbers for all the different variants.

Land Rover Service Information Vol 1 No 2 Item 6, April 1972 gives an explanation:
Series III type all syncromesh gearbox adapted for use on Series IIA Bonneted Control models - 4 cyl - Part No. New - 607125, Part No. Rebuilt - 607126; 6 cyl - Part Nos. 607127 and 607128 respectively. There are also sealed clutch withdrawl unit versions listed.

Bob

[JDNSW]

....and the SIII's had the cutout in the Right Wing for the brake booster

Sorry - according to the parts book, that again came from 2a sufix G onwards according to the parts book, although the part number for the splash panel is different - but it looks the same in the book.

John

[bobslandies]

....and the SIII's had the cutout in the Right Wing for the brake booster

But Series 2A Suffix "G" fitted with 6 cylinder motors also were fitted with brake boosters - so all suffix "G" onwards 109WB front guards driver's side complete are Part No 354566. Suffix "G" onwards also has the stepped inner guard splash panel.
Outer guard panel passengers side Series 2A Vehicle Suffix "G" 330427 - no heater fresh air inlet hole. This part no is the same from at least 1959 with the introduction of the Series 2. (Series 2 Parts Catalogue Part No 4187 p239)

Prior to the Series 3 optional heaters fitted are the cylindrical and later flat type recirculating heaters on the firewall over the transmission and under the metal dash tray.

Series 3 vehicles were the first routinely fitted with the combined recirculating/fresh air type heaters, not that they worked anything like as good as the recirculating ones they replaced. So there was a hole for the fresh air intake in the outer guard as well as the larger rectangular hole in the firewall allowing either fresh or heated airflow into the chamber in the lower sloping dash for distribution to the demisters and lower dash outlets:
Outer guard panel passengers side Series III 345475 - has the heater inlet hole.
The first reference I have for the fresh air type heater is in the Optional Equipment Parts Catalogue Sept 1975 - can't find my earlier one. I imagine Australian Design Rules (ADRs) would have meant heaters were by then fitted as standard, more to be used as demisters than heaters.

ADR 15 - Demisting of Windscreens - came into effect 1 January 1971.
If you want to know what the numbers on compliance plates of this period refer to have a look here:
Second Edition Australian Design Rules (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/second_edition_adrs.aspx)
Not all appear to have applied to Land Rovers as they were not classed as passenger car derivatives but as "motor lorries" or "goods carrying vehicles", "omnibuses" etc. and so sometimes fell outside the scope of the ADRs intended for passenger cars.

Bob