Thread: 300tdi on bio?

Originally Posted by 2keen

would someone b able to tell me if and how can a 300tdi be converted to run on bio fuel, does bio still work with d/gas or diesel gas

Hi
Just pour the Bio in, buy a couple of fuel filters and learn to change them on the side of the road/track!

Been running my '97 300TDi since June '04 - no problems.
I fitted an electric lift pump - makes priming sooo much easier.

In August '07 swapped 300Tdi out for a new HS2800.
Been running that on Bio from day one, now got 15K on the clock

Notes:-
* bio is a far better lubricant
* smells better

I bailed up a Holden dealer tech recently on Bio in their diesel vehicles.
Their concern appears to be about control of water content.

BTW, talk about no warranty only with Bio is bollocks!!
NO fuel related engine damage is covered in standard new car warranty, no matter what fuel is used!
You have to claim on the fuel company's insurance.

Cheers
Dave
South Oz

hi there

I ran my 4.2 ltr land cruzer on bio from 96 to 2006 changed fuel lines and pump seals to nitrol/nytrol (unsure of spelling) due to unsure if 4x4 had ruber ones as it was around this time most manufactures changed to bio compatable seals as bio will eat away ruber any how had some isues with quality from servo so started making it my self from used chip oil works out to about 30cents a letter and the bi product makes for good fertalizer in garden allso noticed less smoke from rear better smell and cleaner oil ever part of the fuel system cleaner and if spilt there is no enviromental isues as it bio degradabale i now have a petrol RR on LPG and thinking about still have my prosesing gear to make bio fuel if any one is interrested in making it them self as I found it to be much cleaner then servo even though it was better still was perdantic about fuel filters so i ran two and chaged every 10,000km cheap insurance.

ps: had fuel pump and injecters servesed as per manual around 2006 just before I sold it but dont believe it was needed. wasted $2,800 new owner was happy thow.

PM me if interested.

cheers

Originally Posted by clean32

Then explain how his would have happened? What properties of Bio diesel would have such an effect?
its is a surprise considering that many Euro manufactures offer extended warranties on motors which use Bio, yet the same cars in Australia have aussie dealers who slag bio??
I am referring to Fait, VW and merc ( that I know of)
Bio and Bio blends are freely available to the point of it is starting to get hard to purchase normal diesel ( in some places), add to that the synthetic diesels available over there.

Proper bio diesel as opposed to WVO is an esterfied fat or oil, and in theory should have a far better lubricity than conventional ULSD diesel however...

esters, by their nature are conventional elastomer seal swellers and softeners.
esters have a natural degree of detergency (as many have found out )
some esters are polar. (meaning they have an affinity for other polar items like metals)
some esters have an affinity for water.
some esters react with water and become corrosive.
Last time I asked a chemist I was told there are over 200 different types of di-abasic and poly-ol esters that are used as hydraulic fluids and lubricants.

The seal swelling problem is overcome by using the correct seal material.
AFAIK Viton, a flurocarbon elastomer is the seal of choice.

IIRC older pumps used nitrile seals. Nitrile loses it's elasticity with age, soak it with a seal sweller, particularly if there's a little bit of garbage caught behind it and it will probably seal better for a while, then the crap gets washed away, and eventually the seal either becomes too soft to support the pressure behind it and leaks or it tears.
Pump overhaul time.

The other thing to consider with bio diesel is;

What standards does the bio conform to ?
Who has tested it ?

Conventional diesel from the majors has to conform to the current Oz standard for sulphur, cetane, lubricity, etc.

Some more points to consider.
There should be less soot with bio diesel so less strain on the lubricating oil from that aspect.
If using a mechanical rotary injector pump it should last a lot longer with bio if it's good bio diesel
I'm suspect of bio-diesel from a fuel dilution point as per the link Simon posted above, but better oils will alleviate this.
Shorter oil change intervals of 5-7,500km should help in the short term, but I have no testing to reference to see if this holds true.

Originally Posted by David Read

<snip>

BTW, talk about no warranty only with Bio is bollocks!!
NO fuel related engine damage is covered in standard new car warranty, no matter what fuel is used!
You have to claim on the fuel company's insurance.

Cheers
Dave
South Oz

Hi Dave,
good to see you post here, takes me back to the AULRO and RRO list days

Yep, I think you're right about the fuel and warranty, as a few people have found out the hard way with 'normal' fuels.

Some interesting points from Penrite regarding bio-diesel and engine lubes.
This backs up my information and information I've posted previously from Chevron/Texaco/Caltex.

Biodiesel however is more of an issue.
B5 and B10 are common overseas with some B20 and very occasionally, B100.
The “bio” is the ester part. These esters are made from a chemical process where vegetable
oils or animal fats are reacted with an alcohol to form a fatty acid methyl ester (or FAME). The
common vegetable type oils are canola oil, palm oil and soybean. And you can also make it
from corn, olive and sunflower oil. Even used cooking oil is a good source once refined.
Biodiesel has some issues that mineral diesel does not have.
Fuel dilution is always a problem with diesels. But biodiesel is less volatile. Hence, while the
mineral component may evaporate, the “bio” part does not. This of course lowers the viscosity
of the oil. However, to counter that, the “bios” are not as oxidatively stable so the oil thickens
again – but with the usual oxidation by-products occurring (but worse) such as sludge and
increased piston deposits. So the combination of the two factors can impact engine wear.
Poor quality biodiesel may also lead to ash build up in diesel particulate filters and work is
continuing on that factor. In Europe and the USA, there are tight specifications for the “bio”
component to ensure that overall fuel quality is not compromised. So simply blending your old
cooking oil with your fuel is not a wise option.
While many OEMs accept B5 diesel, recent work has found that even that 5% dilution can have
a major impact on oil life and that lubricant selection will be critical. In modern engines that
require low SAPS oils, the low SAPS oils seem to be able to handle B5/B10 blends better than
other grades (so Enviro+ Engine Oils and Diesel SP are favoured). In older engines, little
work has yet been done, but products such as HPR Diesel 5, Diesel GS and Diesel LA would
be favoured here.
Current practice recommends standard oil drain intervals be halved when using biodiesel
regardless of the oil type and that is certainly the stand that Penrite will be taking while
research continues.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/files/2...%20BIOFUEL.pdf

Are Low SAPS oils not recommended for older engines? All I could find was stuff about cats and particulate filters.

Simon

Originally Posted by abaddonxi

Are Low SAPS oils not recommended for older engines? All I could find was stuff about cats and particulate filters.

Simon

Definitely not petrol engines like the Rover V8, but most diesels should be fine on the low SAPS brews.
AFAIK the oil companies have had to substitute exxy AW additives to compensate for the loss of the ash compounds as most fleets are mixed and operators like to standardise on one oil so there aren't any stuff ups.

The low SAPS CJ-4 and ACEA 6 oils are supposedly much better than previous oils in terms of wear, scuffing and bore polishing (ACEA 7), but may not be able to go quite as far with the extended drains that some big truck operators used with CI-4+ and ACEA 7 type oils.

I have a low SAPS oil in two sumps ATM, so I'll know in a couple of thousand km whether I've stuffed up or not. <edit> which I doubt, as it meets API CI-4 too</edit>

on a 98 130 did they put in non rubber fuel lines?
or are they still natural rubber?
and the fuel pump should be sweet on bio by this date correct ?????
regards andy