Cold Start setup

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Thanks yes. I'm thinking compression guage under-reads. I'll check the CX turbo ( 7.8:1 compression 150,000 miles on it). and if it is around 110psi .... I have a dodgy gauge that is under-reading by probably 15->20psi. I think the Rover v8 shoudl be around 150psi if google isn't leading me wrong. If it reads higher/same as the Range Rover .... The range rover motor is very, very worn!

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I'm tearing my hair out here.... I don't understand what is going on. I've now tried a different coil, a different ignition module, different rotor button .... checked and tested all of the leads (including the coil) .... also swapped the coil lead in desperation. There is 12volts at the coil. I'm guessing its running on about 6cylinders .... randomly. Given all the pots have enough compression to run .... Its running on LPG (which takes all the injection and computer systems out of the mix) .... This has to be ignition or compression -- which I've proven its not.

Even though it was running perfectly upto the second it decided not to start that night a couple of weeks back. I've started from scratch (just to cover myself). So I put No 1 at TDC .... made sure the rotor button was pointed to No 1. Then checked the firing order ..... about 25 million bloody times ( sadly that isn't even much of an exaggeration).

It seems to be wetting the plugs on No 7 and No 8 if I leave if running long enough (which makes no sense .... opposite sides of the motor .... opposite sides of the dizzie cap too amost.

The only thing I haven't checked by substituion is the dizzie cap and trigger wheel in the dizzie. I'm guessing the trigger wheel better be my next try.

Then I'm back to mechanical .... Is there a simple way to check the cam timing ? There seems to be little to no slop in the timing chain ( there is no lag in the rotor button rotation if you roll the motor forward/back). I wonder if somoene has put a fancy cam setup in this that allows the timing to be adjusted .... that has moved or died.

I guess you could take the LH rocker cover off and look at the lobes for no1 cylinder.
Assuming the front pulley is correct for the engine both lobes IN and Exc should be on the heel of the cam and roughly in the same position when TDC firing is indicated. Use a borescope.

I have a couple of other thoughts.

Many rotors for these engines are crap. You should only use a Lucas rotor.

Have you lifted the rotor off the shaft and dislodged the bob weights by pulling upwards on the shaft? The only safe way to remove a rotor is to crush it with say multi grips.

Replace the plug wires for 7and 8 even though you think they are good. Plug wires are cheap.

Are you SURE the firing order is correct? AFAIR it is clockwise on the dizzy.
Has the electronic module died?


Check the posts for the cheap replacement.
Are the 7and 8 cam lobes worn out?

Regards PhilipA
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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I guess you could take the LH rocker cover off and look at the lobes for no1 cylinder.
Assuming the front pulley is correct for the engine both lobes IN and Exc should be on the heel of the cam and roughly in the same position when TDC firing is indicated. Use a borescope.

I have a couple of other thoughts.

Many rotors for these engines are crap. You should only use a Lucas rotor.

Have you lifted the rotor off the shaft and dislodged the bob weights by pulling upwards on the shaft? The only safe way to remove a rotor is to crush it with say multi grips.

Replace the plug wires for 7and 8 even though you think they are good. Plug wires are cheap.

Are you SURE the firing order is correct? AFAIR it is clockwise on the dizzy.
Has the electronic module died?


Check the posts for the cheap replacement.
Are the 7and 8 cam lobes worn out?

Regards PhilipA
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Thanks yes, I swapped in a used lucas rotor button and swapped the igntion module (I have a parts car here). running has not changed. I also found an old dizzie cap in the shed and swapped (running unchanged). Once I swap over the pickup in the dizzie .... I'mm down to the valve train, with compression the only option I really have left is the valves aren't opening! I've verfied the firing order now on 3 different websites.

https://www.fixya.com/uploads/images...5_55_47_pm.gif

I was trying to avoid the "I've pulled the engine down when I only needed a $15 rotor button" type exercise [bighmmm]

It is known on these engines that the exhaust valves stick from carbon build up , but this usually happens under load when the engine is hot.

A test is to whack the valves with a hammer. The good ones will bounce and the bad ones go "thunk".

BUT this does not accord with the flooding you reported.

The hydrolocking does not appear to have damaged anything seeing the compressions are good.

You know on a 14CUX there is a wire that runs from the coil to the ECU which tells the ECU that the motor is running . Check the connection. I do not know whether it has any relationship with gas. AFAIR he wire is black. the white wire is the resistor wire to the coil.

There is also a wire from the starter solonoid to the coil. If it comes off the solonoid you don't get power when starting. the engine kicks as you release the starter. I may be thinking of older models with this, but worth a check. it all blurs after 10-20 years.
If it has just an old type gas setup with a venturi , test all the switch over relays and connections. If it is an injection setup, you would have to suspect the ECU if it runs off the 14CUX.

Regards philipA

Has anyone been kicking around behind the front passenger seat?

Check the rollover switch hasn't been triggered.

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Originally Posted by Mercguy

Has anyone been kicking around behind the front passenger seat?

Check the rollover switch hasn't been triggered.

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who is the bloody comedian that put 12 point bolts on the rocker covers. I have dozens of bloody sockets here .... but everything under 8mm is single hex ( 6point! ). These look to be about 8mm.

edit:

looks like the sockets actually exist:
GEARWRENCH 1/4inch Drive Standard 12PT Rail Met Socket Set 13pc 80306 | Total Tools

Well I changed the pickup in the dizzie .... and the car started "as normal". ie: rather than cranking for 5seconds before spluttering to life, it now fires instantly again .... with a distinct heavy miss. So i changed the lead and plug on No 8 and tried again ..... and it wet the plug. So I put the compression gauge into that hole and fired it back up. Sigh ...... < 75psi tops .... :( I've bent a conrod when it hydrolocked.... or damaged something. That's a shame ... given every other pot is near bang on 135psi .... this was a good motor!! (was :( ).

So I'm thinking this. I found issues with the wiring to both the fuel rail temp sensor and the main temp sender. The dizzie pickup wasn't working properly (maybe the air gap opened up ... or the sensor has gone intermittant).

So what happened is

1) The car always started very rich and lump on petrol, then flicked itself instantly to gas
2) The dizzie pickup went intermittant leading to very hard starting.
3) Because it didn't start instantly, the motor flooded (due to the temperature sender issue).
4) we filled a cylinder with fuel and locked the motor .... but the starter had the grunt to push past it and somehow damage something on No 8.

sigh .....

I'll get the other motor out and compression test it. I bet its nowhere near as good as this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

So I'm thinking this. I found issues with the wiring to both the fuel rail temp sensor and the main temp sender. The dizzie pickup wasn't working properly (maybe the air gap opened up ... or the sensor has gone intermittant).

So what happened is

1) The car always started very rich and lump on petrol, then flicked itself instantly to gas
2) The dizzie pickup went intermittant leading to very hard starting.
3) Because it didn't start instantly, the motor flooded (due to the temperature sender issue).
4) we filled a cylinder with fuel and locked the motor .... but the starter had the grunt to push past it and somehow damage something on No 8.

sigh .....

I'll get the other motor out and compression test it. I bet its nowhere near as good as this one.

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Why not take the sump off, undo the rod on 8 after marking it and pull it out with the piston to have a look? Wouldn't take long........... then you know what needs doing.

You might just need the rod re-sized.

I had to do something similar on the mooring block in my POS years ago, but it was to replace the rear main seal that had always leaked since I bought it. Had to loosen all the mains and drop the crank slightly to do it.(you won't have to do that).

All done in an hour or so.

DL

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Originally Posted by 350RRC

Why not take the sump off, undo the rod on 8 after marking it and pull it out with the piston to have a look? Wouldn't take long........... then you know what needs doing.

You might just need the rod re-sized.

I had to do something similar on the mooring block in my POS years ago, but it was to replace the rear main seal that had always leaked since I bought it. Had to loosen all the mains and drop the crank slightly to do it.(you won't have to do that).

All done in an hour or so.

DL

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Can you change a piston through the bottom ? .... I'd never have thought of that.

Only people like me end up with crap like this. So after all this buggering around to find the pickup in the dizzie wasn't working properly ...... I wanted to find out how it is possible that the damn thing over-fueled so much it hydrolocked. So I whipped the fuel rail off and tippied it upside down .... checked the voltage at the injector plug (12volts). This is going to be simple. I'll just cycle the key and run the pump for 2seconds and power each injector and see if it dribbles/leaks..... I actually didn't get that far ... instead grabbed my 8year old and said "here video this, no-one would believe me unless they can see it"......


https://youtu.be/CnC9Jy5TMAw


Only I could have two completely separate major running issues at the same time. This certainly explains the hydrolocking.