Thread: Cold Start setup

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Hi All,

does the '92 hotwire rangie have a cold start timer (or injector ) at all? It always starts rich as buggery .... but runs fine once its running.

Last night I went to pickup one of the kids ..... we walk out to the car ..... and rather than hitting on the first revolution (as per normal) .... it cranked for about 5 seconds without firing ...... Urrrgghhhh...... So I tried another blast for 5 seconds on the starter.... Damn. Its gotta be flooded .... I can smell the fuel .... I pushed the go pedal to the floor and held it there... and the damn thing hydro-locked


Bloody hell, so I unplugged the petrol pump ..... and held her wide open to try and start it. I checked, yep, nice strong spark at the plug wires...... I tried for 20minutes to get the thing to even fire in the slightest (not a cracker) Given it was late at night, I just left the car there and we got a ride home.

So I went back today and figured it would have evaporated off over night .... and start ..... not a god damn cracker. So I pulled all the plugs down the passenger side of the motor and cranked it to clear any unburnt fuel... and the damn thing fire on a bunch of cylinders on the other side of the motor.... sigh.

So I put the plugs back in. The almost new (probably only 5000kms old) expensive iridium spark plugs appear to be pretty much cactus. The petrol seems to have destroyed them ( WTF ?) So we chugged home on a few cylinders that would fire.

I'm going to need a new set of CHEAP THIS TIME spark plugs ... But the main thing I need to sort out is the cold start. I'm thinking a dodgy sensor or wiring connection. So I turn the key to crank, it give a blast of fuel enrichment for whatever the timer period is (only the damn motor is hot not cold). Then I crank it again another two times, and both times it gives it another good drowning from the cold start timer .... to the point we now have hydraulically locked the bloody motor and wiped out the plugs.

Does anyone have documentation on how the cold start works ?

seeya,
Shane L.

Pull on the choke lever?

It sounds to me like your injectors are leaking badly.
Fit a new set of Bosch yellow from the USA and it should start better.
I must say that with new injectors my 91 never ever hydrolocked or in fact ran poorly when cold.

14CUX does not have thermo time switches and extra injectors, the ECU controls it from the temperature sensor.

You perhaps should at least test your temperature sensor, which is the one with an injector plug and 2 wires on the drivers side front of the RH head. The resistance specs should be in RAVE, but maybe even a dirty plug or other poor connection could increase the resistance and make the ECU think the temperature is much colder than it actually is.

But hydrolocking is very serious and would probably involve injectors or maybe a dying ECU.
Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by PhilipA

It sounds to me like your injectors are leaking badly.
Fit a new set of Bosch yellow from the USA and it should start better.
I must say that with new injectors my 91 never ever hydrolocked or in fact ran poorly when cold.

14CUX does not have thermo time switches and extra injectors, the ECU controls it from the temperature sensor.

You perhaps should at least test your temperature sensor, which is the one with an injector plug and 2 wires on the drivers side front of the RH head. The resistance specs should be in RAVE, but maybe even a dirty plug or other poor connection could increase the resistance and make the ECU think the temperature is much colder than it actually is.

But hydrolocking is very serious and would probably involve injectors or maybe a dying ECU.
Regards PhilipA

Its quite strange. It runs fine on petrol once running with no signs of rich running (ie: leaky injectors). I'll find out if its got a "stuck" injector tomorrow. I've thrown a new set of plugs in it and have pulled the inlet off and tested the temp sensors on the fuel rail and inlet manifold ... they look fine. I'm picking an injector has stuck open when I went to start it. I'll start it on gas tomorrow and throw it back onto petrol once running. If it runs perfectly, i"m scratching my head. If i get huge amounts of unburnt fuel the answer is simple (leaky injector). I'm wondering if I don't have suspect wiring to the fuel rail temp sender (I'm guessing that influences only the starting of the motor). If may well think the fuel rail is at minus 50 degrees If there was issues iwth the main temp sender it wouldn't run so well once started.

edit: I just checked the price of injectors .... Wow, could you even get them cleaned for the price of newies ? How do they manage to make eight bosch injectors for $100! Thats 1/2 the price of the sparkplugs I just trashed!

Aha!
It is possible when using gas almost all of time that the injectors will seize open.

In fact I sold a set of Lucas injectors to a member in Melbourne many years ago who had the problem which was clearly visible in a posted photo.

BTW when you replace the injectors make sure that you get ones with the groove in the top for the fuel rail clip.

If you don't you have to add a second O ring at the bottom to stop the possibility of the injector "falling out" of the rail with fuel everywhere.
Ask me how I know.

Regards PhilipA

Yeah, I think I've hurt the motor somehow. I'll need to chase up a compression gauge and see what is going on (and hopefully rule out mechanical issues). I've tried two different sets of plugs .... Check and verified the HT leads. But its not happy and seems to be missing "everywhere" ... but not. Are these motors known for wearing timing chains. Possibly the cam timing is out (ie: jumped a tooth when I hydraulic'd the damn thing).

I found a mice has eaten through the back of the temp sensor wiring plug ... the wires are exposed in there. I'll need to verify if they are broken though. If the temperature sender is open circuit due to wiring faults.... the damn thing will probably thing its minus 50degrees outside and fill the motor with fuel.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

It sounds to me like your injectors are leaking badly.
Fit a new set of Bosch yellow from the USA and it should start better.
I must say that with new injectors my 91 never ever hydrolocked or in fact ran poorly when cold.

Just a note on injectors.
For the later type of solid fuel rail with O Ring seals instead of the hoses, there is another injector option, easily locally available - I have been running for the last few months a set of Ford - Pintle type injectors (EA I think, pre AU). Same size, same O-ring and plug location, same delivery rate, direct fit with no extra O-rings. My 91 3.9 now gets around 14-15 per 100 highway and 17-18ish around town, depending on cold and stop start use, really feels stronger too. At least a 20% economy improvement from the old original Lucas. Pic attached for comparison, yellow tip is the Ford. Got these from Phil at Hurricane Automotive in Geelong (been working this stuff for years), he bench tested a set of Bosch Yellow against these, and the fuel deivery was much more efficient than with the Yellow. Best of all, they only cost about (less than) half as much for a set of reconditioned ones compared to ordering from the US.

IMG_0023-preview (1).jpg

Well No 8 appeared to kill its sparkplug within a few minutes .... adn I'll be buggered if I could narrow down any specific missing pot .... I'd pretty much decided I've either fried the head gasket or bent a conrod. Anyway I orded in a cheap compression tester.

No 2: 135
No 4: 137
No 6: 137
No 8: 120
No 1: 140
No 3: 135
No 5: 135
No 7: 145

So they all seem really low. Possibly the new "cheapest I could find" compression gauge isn't accurate. So I wandered around the yard looking for a car that I could test that would have high compression to chekc the gauge....

arrrhhh ..... 70 year old long stroke motors, 50+ year old long strong motors .... my CX turbo ....well that's a low compression turbo motor. boss womens car is a diesel..... damn .... I pulled a plug from one of the old long stroke motors and tried the compression tester, the starter barely wheezed the motor over at snails pace (sigh ..... another battery needed). 75psi .... well that proves nothing. I'll try another car later.

Even though the compression is low, I would have thought that motor should run fine ? Maybe the spark isn't hot enough (could the cam timing have moved ?) I'll try the dizzie, coil and ignition coil from the parts car to rule that out.

Well No 8 appeared to kill its sparkplug within a few minutes .... adn I'll be buggered if I could narrow down any specific missing pot .... I'd pretty much decided I've either fried the head gasket or bent a conrod. Anyway I orded in a cheap compression tester.

No 2: 135
No 4: 137
No 6: 137
No 8: 120
No 1: 140
No 3: 135
No 5: 135
No 7: 145

They are all fine or should I say and engine should run perfectly with those compressions and the head gasket is OK.
Compression should be about 150PSI on new engine.
Did you open throttle fully? Turn at least 5 times? all spark plugs removed?

Regards PhilipA