Panhard Rod

Thanks for all the advice guys.
I got under it this arvo with all wheels on flat concrete. Stands under front axle and dropped a plumb line on each side to the axle (from the chassis rail to the edge of the flat welded onto the axle for the spring base). About 15 mm difference with the axle apparently shifted sideways too much towards the near side. I guess if it was to shift 7.5 mm towards the off side it would be equal. Is this significant for crabbing?
Noted the comment about radius arms and the work I did recently was rebushing the radius arms (axle and chassis ends) as well as the panhard rod saga. I'd also rebushed the rear radius arms. Also replaced all three tie rod joints and faithfully counted the turns so the new ones went back pretty near to where the old ones were. Final torque of all the rebushed joints with vehicle back on the ground.

There's been no nasty suspension jarring driving, only off road is sand once a year.
Same replacement Michelin Primacy 235/70/16 on all four wheels.

I gave in to suspicion and refitted the old bent but rebushed panhard rod and have been offered another (free) go at the alignment tomorrow.
Fingers crossed [bigwhistle]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aRRon

I guess if it was to shift 7.5 mm towards the off side it would be equal. Is this significant for crabbing?

---

Definitely. 1mm is sufficient. But for it to be noticeable 15mm would easily be enough. Half an inch in old money. You'd see some tire wear, and observant, err, observers would see it from behind. Can be a bugger in the wet.

Good luck with it. Maybe consider something like this.

Caveat: I don't know if those will fit your RR, but I suspect they would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aRRon

Thanks for all the advice guys.
I got under it this arvo with all wheels on flat concrete. Stands under front axle and dropped a plumb line on each side to the axle (from the chassis rail to the edge of the flat welded onto the axle for the spring base). About 15 mm difference with the axle apparently shifted sideways too much towards the near side. I guess if it was to shift 7.5 mm towards the off side it would be equal. Is this significant for crabbing?
Noted the comment about radius arms and the work I did recently was rebushing the radius arms (axle and chassis ends) as well as the panhard rod saga. I'd also rebushed the rear radius arms. Also replaced all three tie rod joints and faithfully counted the turns so the new ones went back pretty near to where the old ones were. Final torque of all the rebushed joints with vehicle back on the ground.

There's been no nasty suspension jarring driving, only off road is sand once a year.
Same replacement Michelin Primacy 235/70/16 on all four wheels.

I gave in to suspicion and refitted the old bent but rebushed panhard rod and have been offered another (free) go at the alignment tomorrow.
Fingers crossed [bigwhistle]

---

yep, thats crabbing territory.

Id be setting up a full square stringline and doing he datum of the rear axle too.

Without much effort you should be able to pin the geometry of your vehicle into =/- 2mm.

hope they nail it in for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

Id be setting up a full square stringline and doing he datum of the rear axle too.

---

You use a chalkline for that, Dave, or am I old fashioned and you use a laser?😆

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

In that case check the radius arms.bushes.

My.preferred.method is to jack each wheel individually and rotate them until one of the drive.flange.bolts is in the most forward position. Use a small magnetic set square and then measure from.the center of the bolt to.thencwnter of the bolt, check both sides you should be within +/÷ 2mm left to right.

The quick way is to again plumb the front axle, I use the front of the spring perch.

Good luck

---

Thanks again Dave for your very useful advice.
I checked the axle left/right with a plumb line and it was 7mm out towards the o/s. I suspended the body on stands, loosened all the newly fitted bushes (radius arms and panhard rod) and let the axle "swing" in its radius arms. Lowered it back down and refitted the wheels and retorqued the bushing bolts to factory specs. This got the axle back to about 3mm difference side to side = good enough for me.
Then removed the track rod and refitted the tie rod ball joints to factory specs (28.5 mm protrusion from track rod) and also the gap between the alignment adjuster and the track rod to 9mm as per manual. I discovered that the tie rod ends were way out and the adjuster was rusted solid and I could see fresh scratches where multigrips had been used to wrench at it in the so-called wheel alignment done at the tyre shop. So they hadn't been able to adjust it at all! Freed up and greased the adjuster (took heat to get it out) put everything back and did a chalk and tape measure toe out. Would guess to within 3mm toe out using this method. Hey presto - steering wheel almost back to centre and drives in a nice straight line with no squeals on roundabouts. Will now take it in to see what the computerised aligner shows and expose their BS.
Thanks to everyone for great advice.
So cool that lovers of Classics keep on keeping on.

PS the workshop manual recommends tapping all the steering ball joints into a certain direction to obtain "maximum extent of travel" of the steering rods. Is this important or makes a difference? I've checked that the steering gear is on the stops at full lock both sides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aRRon

Thanks again Dave for your very useful advice.
I checked the axle left/right with a plumb line and it was 7mm out towards the o/s. I suspended the body on stands, loosened all the newly fitted bushes (radius arms and panhard rod) and let the axle "swing" in its radius arms. Lowered it back down and refitted the wheels and retorqued the bushing bolts to factory specs. This got the axle back to about 3mm difference side to side = good enough for me.
Then removed the track rod and refitted the tie rod ball joints to factory specs (28.5 mm protrusion from track rod) and also the gap between the alignment adjuster and the track rod to 9mm as per manual. I discovered that the tie rod ends were way out and the adjuster was rusted solid and I could see fresh scratches where multigrips had been used to wrench at it in the so-called wheel alignment done at the tyre shop. So they hadn't been able to adjust it at all! Freed up and greased the adjuster (took heat to get it out) put everything back and did a chalk and tape measure toe out. Would guess to within 3mm toe out using this method. Hey presto - steering wheel almost back to centre and drives in a nice straight line with no squeals on roundabouts. Will now take it in to see what the computerised aligner shows and expose their BS.
Thanks to everyone for great advice.
So cool that lovers of Classics keep on keeping on.

PS the workshop manual recommends tapping all the steering ball joints into a certain direction to obtain "maximum extent of travel" of the steering rods. Is this important or makes a difference? I've checked that the steering gear is on the stops at full lock both sides.

---

In theory this isnt needed, however if you have a sloppy or overly tight joint this test can help to identify it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tins

You use a chalkline for that, Dave, or am I old fashioned and you use a laser?😆

---

Nope, I use a string line and 4 jackstands to setup the square then measure off with a tape and sometimes a set square, no need for chalk.

Nothing to do with alignment but is related to the panhard rod.

I have just removed my panhard rod due to excessive play in the bushes. Should I replace them with standard rubber or Nolathane type bushes.

standard rubber or the medium poly bush, theres something like 14 grades of poly, the soft stuff isnt stiff enough and the stiff stuff might as well be a solid steel bush.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

standard rubber or the medium poly bush, theres something like 14 grades of poly, the soft stuff isnt stiff enough and the stiff stuff might as well be a solid steel bush.

---

Exactly.

Over the years in many different vehicles I've discovered that (ironically) the quality of GENUINE ( that is OE, not OEM) bushes in branded boxes or bags have longevity that the almost identical OEM's do not.
Yes, there is a difference in some manufacturers cases and you'd be hard pressed (no pun intended) to tell the difference, or if there even is a difference.

If you do decide to go for a urethane bush, then Simply go local and buy Super Pro from Fulcrum. Their quality is the best on the market - and yes, those yellow things that come in from OS with a select few 'land rover specialist' are simply not up to the task and fall apart ( been there done that)

If you intend on machining your own, then the appropriately razor sharp tool and your VSS drive will send ribbons flying, and it still won't be as nice as the super pro.

You're looking for a hardness between 75 and 83 C, anything above that will have no flex, and it will tear the bush OR if there is a severe enough shock load, it will damage the mount in which the bush is attached (broken panhard mounts and deformed bolts, seen broken trailing arms from the installation of hot-cured sleeved bushes(nolathane) and the ubiquitous link pin bushes that break their supporting collar washers).

your radius arms, ideally you want some rubber bushes - this one's been done to death - there is an argument for the superpro and OE rubber alike, but it depends on your primary use case. - more on-road, you go for urethane, and if you're a full-send mega-flexy low ranger, then you stick with the OE and slightly less frequent replacement, or convert to the nissan holey bush etc.

that's really sidetracking this discussion. Stick to the OE or super pro bushes for the RRC. In every instance they simply work.