Thread: Borg T/Case help

Originally Posted by mike 90 RR

Ok ... I have the 1990 RRC with the Borgwarner & viscos setup with 220thou on the clock

Basicaly I am chasing opinions and options on what to do



The first problem I have is
I have a driveline vibration that comes in at 35kph and disappears at 50kph
It could be described as the same vibration effect when your uni joints are shot

I know it's driveline cause you put it in neutral as you are rolling along at 50kph and it's still there ... It can be felt when touching the high/low gear and it is felt in the seat (backside) ..... So nothing to do with motor or steering

I have also checked and repacked all wheel bearings and all the uni joint's are in good nick ... Including all tail shafts & their slipjoints



I believe the vibration comes from the T/Case FRONT OUTPUT shaft (to the front diff tailshaft) .... because I can move it up & down 2 to 3 mm at where the tailshaft is bolted to the T/Case output shaft ... The seal to this shaft DOES NOT leak or weep


Also the chain in the T/case has backlash .... Jacked the wheels off the ground and can rotate the handbrake drum 30mm before it picks up the slack



So questions
1: The loose T/Case front output shaft ... Is this the expected vibration from being loose??
2: The amount of backlash .... Is this the expected vibration from being over-streched and trying to jump a tooth??
3: How long before it blows??

I have to chose carefully on what to do next ($$$$$)

Thank's in advance

Mike

My 89 has done this as well. I replaced Viscious (Was seized)and chain and was still there. In my case was front spline & front TC bearing. Was amplified in 3rd gear.
If you remove the front shaft dont run it to long.

Mike,

Try removing the front shaft and drive it, to test the theory because the up and down movement from these even in good nick is about that
The front output shafts wear BADLY also, and hack the bearing up while they are at it.

The chain has to be a LOT slacker than that to be a problem.

They are a pretty good case actually, apart from actual viscous unit failures, I think they are up to anything you can give out to them! They get used in the UK a lot for off road racing, and I certainly couldn't break mine

There are Quaife type diffs available apparently for these that negate the use of the viscous unit altogether, but $$$ are big for these.

In short, if the viscous unit hasn't failed, and the vibration isn't actually IN the box, then I'd persist with it.

JC

the slop on the front of the tcase is not going to be helping your cause...

other things to check.

how are your propshafts any dents or fresh metal marks on them where they might have thrown a weight?

is the parkbrake drum ok and are the shoes releasing properly...

chain stretch doesnt usually result in driveline vibes but a wierd noise as it scrapes the casing and extra ally appearing in the tcase oil when you drain it.

the movement of the drum is about normal because you have to take up the slack in the diff in the tcase and then all the slack in theplantery range selector and the drive chain to the gearbox before it will stop.

try this to eliminate the park brake.

starting from dead cold release the handbrake. take it for a 20 minute fang and pull it up without applying the handbrake. get under and feel it. IF its hotter than the ambient temp of the tcase its dragging and that might be the cause of the problem.

while your at it feel the tcase near the bearing journals. IF you have a bearing thats taking a pounding it will be marginally warmer but thats not usually a brilliant indication unless its piping hot over a bearing in which case the bearing is shot.

Originally Posted by Rangier Rover

My 89 has done this as well. I replaced Viscious (Was seized)and chain and was still there. In my case was front spline & front TC bearing. Was amplified in 3rd gear.
If you remove the front shaft dont run it to long.

No ... mine is not affected by any difference in gear selection

But ... if the viscos is stuffed ... then you would have the vibe problem?? which is a lead up to the next stage to being seized (locked up)???

Did you have the same vibration in the kph range I mentioned?? as I don't have it at any higher speeds

I will drop the tail shaft during the week and find out the difference in vibration

Originally Posted by justinc

Mike,

Try removing the front shaft and drive it, to test the theory because the up and down movement from these even in good nick is about that
The front output shafts wear BADLY also, and hack the bearing up while they are at it.

The chain has to be a LOT slacker than that to be a problem.

They are a pretty good case actually, apart from actual viscous unit failures, I think they are up to anything you can give out to them! They get used in the UK a lot for off road racing, and I certainly couldn't break mine

There are Quaife type diffs available apparently for these that negate the use of the viscous unit altogether, but $$$ are big for these.

In short, if the viscous unit hasn't failed, and the vibration isn't actually IN the box, then I'd persist with it.

JC

It's good to hear that the 2 to 3mm play is normal
I don't mind replacing the viscos unit .... and if possible the chain as well
But if was to do it .... I would want to do it without dropping the box

But you mentioned .... The front output shafts wear BADLY also, and hack the bearing up while they are at it. ..... What would be the method of fix in this case .... Is it easy because you have got the viscos out already???

On the slack chain ... by looking at amount of movement on handbrake drum .... What amount of mil's of movement of slack is too much??

Mike

from memory you can drop the tcase without removing the main transmission.

If you happen to jag a good tcase that you want up in it I might just be able to organise time for it to happen while Im over for Xmas...

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

the slop on the front of the tcase is not going to be helping your cause...

other things to check.

how are your propshafts any dents or fresh metal marks on them where they might have thrown a weight? I have checked them properly .. They have been replaced 2yr's ago and are "as brand new" condition

is the parkbrake drum ok and are the shoes releasing properly... Good point ... but I don't think that this is the cause ... But will recheck

chain stretch doesnt usually result in driveline vibes but a wierd noise as it scrapes the casing and extra ally appearing in the tcase oil when you drain it.

the movement of the drum is about normal because you have to take up the slack in the diff in the tcase and then all the slack in theplantery range selector and the drive chain to the gearbox before it will stop.
I jacked the wheels off ground and .... the 30mm mentioned ...IS for the lash of chain only .....

try this to eliminate the park brake.

starting from dead cold release the handbrake. take it for a 20 minute fang and pull it up without applying the handbrake. get under and feel it. IF its hotter than the ambient temp of the tcase its dragging and that might be the cause of the problem.

while your at it feel the tcase near the bearing journals. IF you have a bearing thats taking a pounding it will be marginally warmer but thats not usually a brilliant indication unless its piping hot over a bearing in which case the bearing is shot. Brilliant ... I will give this one a go

Thanks Dave .... I will give the bearing heat feel a go also and will also have another look at the hand brake .... Funny thing is, I actually don't use it, as I am always on flat ground


Mike

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

from memory you can drop the tcase without removing the main transmission.

If you happen to jag a good tcase that you want up in it I might just be able to organise time for it to happen while Im over for Xmas...

Dave .... Luv the offer,, but your on holidays ... Don't have a problem with doing it ... Have access to hoists, etc ... Just need to settle in on "What is actually the problem" before shelling out dollars (not in the wrong areas)

Where are you going? .... is it Fishing swimming or drinking or you just have to see our lovely white beaches

Im going to have to double check my raves for the details of the BW case but from memory the drive works the same as an LT230. The last chain unit I had apart on a rangie was modded with a diff and lock in it in the same general configuration as the LT230 and it was out to replace the diff unit.


In case Im wrong....

If its a direct chain drive to the rear output shaft and the VC is simply connecting the front to the back then 30 mm of movement at the circumference of the drum would be a bit excessive but I wouldnt call it fatal.

If it drives through a diff setup like the 230 then the slop is a bit more than nominal but ID let it go.