Thread: Dell or Imac

Originally Posted by Scallops

I just join in the forum, ozzirt. These 3 threads I quote weren't difficult to find - nor did I have to trawl through pages of info to find them - they are right here on this page. I simply pointed them out to demonstrate my point. Where are all the threads about Apple issues?

But few use them, and usually there are no real options so it's down to take it or leave it.

Like it or not, many more PC users have issues at some stage with their setups.

I'm not really interested in getting too uptight about any of this either! I'm glad you are happy with what you have. And - just for the record - I can run any software I like on my Mac - if I need to run windows, I can.

Yes, that is often the case Macs have been trying to design dual systems for many years, whereas I have never read of any PC board maker trying to incorporate Mac architecture in their boards,.. it's just not needed, there's no demand.

But I don't miss updating Spybot weekly - along with my old virus software. I don't miss having to buy all the extras either - sound cards, video cams, microphones whatever.

At the end of the day, if it hooks you up to AULRO - then it's all good. So if you go mising for a while, we'll send out the patch doctor with all the other fixes to get you back on line sooner rather than later.

Some of us have interests beyond surfing the internet, and i wouldn't go getting too complacent about lack of susceptibility to viruses,.. as Macs are gaining market share, the virus writers are starting to take an interest. The much vaunted claim that you can't write viruses for macs has already been disproved, and no doubt will take off when they have enough market share. I have not had a virus in 6-7 years and that was no great drama. I must admit that because of my "pastimes" I do get a few spybots and ad servers, but they are automatically detected and removed in minutes, without my input.

Much of what is quoted about PCs is well out of date. http://www.switched.com/2008/08/06/mac-vs-pc/

Thanks for the info on viruses, I'll be on the lookout for them

I mentioned I can run windows because you say I have software limitations.

I too have interests beyond surfing the internet - I am a Geophysicist. And I am yet to find any task that has been, in any way, compromised by me using a Mac.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So, what you object to is that I strongly recommend them?

No, not really. For a start "object" is probably too strong a word to describe the feeling that I had that I should put my 2 cents worth in. Secondly, it wasn't a feeling that you or anyone else was "strongly recommending" them. It was more an impression I had that a lot of people were automatically assuming that everyone had to have a Mac. It looks a bit like automatically assuming that if I'm in the market for a 4WD that it has to be a brand new D3. Whereas I might be quite well served (and a lot better off financially) with a second hand Defender.
I know that analogy is hardly perfect, but you get my point, I hope.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Ok, how does this sound.

Hi, I've worked in IT for over 20 years now in a number of fields. During that time I've undergone substantial academic and commercial training. I have used both the Microsoft and Apple OS's extensively. I find that the Apple OS is substantially easier to use, faster, has more features, does not require re-building for the life of the hardware, and is very secure.

Is that better?

I have no doubt all that is true and I am sure you are in a much better position than I am to make such an assessment, but I don't think you can assume everyone else's needs are the same as yours.
The impression that was being created until I joined the discussion was that the only computer that anyone could ever be happy with is a Mac.
I did say a couple of times that I am sure that Macs suit a lot of people. On the other hand it suits me to have a few extra thousand dollars in my pocket because my needs are such that an 8 year old computer at home running Xubuntu does everything I need to do. There may be other people in the same position as me.

Maybe it's just that I mentally convert the cost of a Mac into diesel for the Defender and make a decision about which is more important, enjoyable and generally fulfilling to me.

Originally Posted by vnx205

...if I'm in the market for a 4WD that it has to be a brand new D3. Whereas I might be quite well served (and a lot better off financially) with a second hand Defender....

Heya vnx - I reckon we can all agree on that! - the captain included! , especially if we change it to... "We would always be better off in any Defender...."

Now - I'm going to quit being a Mac dork - and go out - it's Friday night!

Originally Posted by vnx205

On the other hand it suits me to have a few extra thousand dollars in my pocket because my needs are such that an 8 year old computer at home running Xubuntu does everything I need to do. There may be other people in the same position as me.

Maybe it's just that I mentally convert the cost of a Mac into diesel for the Defender and make a decision about which is more important, enjoyable and generally fulfilling to me.

This thread is about Dell/Windows and Macs which precludes me recommending linux. I like linux and we run it here at home. It's bullet proof, efficient and secure. I think it's great. It's an operating system that was written based on UNIX so shares these attributes with OS X. However I don't recommend it as it is waaay beyond most people's abilities.

You say I am assuming what other peoples needs are..maybe. However I think you're drastically over estimating the computer abilities of the general public. The advice given in here bamboozles me. Like buy a new computer, purchase another OS and wipe the one you've just paid for, and then in two months time buy another OS and install it. Doesn't that strike anyone else as a little extreme?

From my experience the majority of the public do not have the skills required to effectively administer a Windows system. They may have enough knowledge to run it but they don't have enough knowledge to secure it, and they definitely don't have enough knowledge to fix it when it goes wrong.

In my experience these problems are largely exclusive to windows. That's why I don't recommend windows. Linux distributions are great but it's not feasible for the bulk of the population so I can't recommend that. OS X has at least the ease of use of Windows and the stability of UNIX so that's what I recommend.

I think we tend to forget that just by the fact that you're posting on a forum means you are more computer savy than most.

Is your 8 year old computer original? Any upgrades along the way? I've got a 9 year old PC here, and it has had a new mother board and processor, new memory, new video card, added DVD, and a bigger hard disk. It's had windows installed at least 4 times that i can remember. All of these operations beyond general public. As to the Apple hardware, yes it is expensive. However again it is more of a closed box. This suits most people.

What happens now if I turn it on? It beeps three times! On the odd occasion it doesn't beep three times when it does start it takes 5-8 minutes before it can be used. What do I do? I leave it there and use the mac because after coming home from working on computers all day the last thing I want to do is spend time fixing them.

When I come home I want a computer to use to chat with friends, do familiy photos and videos with, manage the family budget, even talk to people on an LR forum occasionally. That's why I recommend macs. Add the following to my advice...

"If you treat tinkering with a PC as enjoyment or are at least prepared to trade your own labour against the purchase cost of a computer, go with Windows or Linux"

WHAT A SPRAY!

Originally Posted by ozzirt

i dunno what these mac operators do, other than read all of the outdated problems suffered by PCs, but I've been using a PC of sorts for 24 years, and can't remember the types of problems they seem to keep raising.

I agree on that point. I use XP with SP2 and have no problems.
Why do people have so many problems with XP?
I run the normal stuff - office suite, adobe suit, nero suit etc. Also some special stuff like radio programming software and mapping + gps software.

As I say - never had a serious problem.

Have only used a mac for video and photo editing. Worked well, but to be fair, similar programmes for the pc.

Originally Posted by miky

Have only used a mac for video and photo editing. Worked well, but to be fair, similar programmes for the pc.

Correct.. At a cost!!!

I have Unix (SCO), Linux (Red Hat), OS X, XP and Vista computers at home..

3 havent ever caused issues... Guess which 3


As for expensive hardware.... Mac Mini.. Sub $1k... How cheap do you want for a hi quality computer?


As a side note. My old man has been using PCs at work for 15 years, excel, outlook etc... hated them... Struggled...
At home tried to make a photo dvd of a trip, struggled... gave up..

got him a mac, mini... now he makes DVDs with soundtracks, emails like mad, chats to family in UK online... etc..

Made a massive difference to him...

I suppose we can all be guilty of making assumptions about other people when we have only a small amount of information to go on. At least I am prepared to concede that I have been guilty of that and I think I have occasionally seen evidence that others have done the same thing.

It is interesting how often I have found when I have had time for a more detailed exchange of ideas, I have found that the similarities between our positions far outweigh the differences.

You can take this as my rather long winded way of saying that I have to concede that your arguments sound pretty convincing and I now have a clearer idea of why you take the stance you have.

Of course there are still some differences, but that is hardly surprising. People's personal experiences and their levels of expertise can make such a difference to their ideas. Some people can be just plain unlucky and buy a Friday afternoon car and then spend the rest of their life condemning that brand of vehicle as unreliable. Others can buy a perfectly good vehicle and because of their own abuse or neglect, they can have an unsatisfactory experience with the vehicle and be just as ready to blame the brand of vehicle.

Maybe that is why when someone asks for advice on a forum like this, it is a good thing that the responses come from people whose views range from one eyed support for one product or another to completely unbiased assessments. All the person asking the question has to do then is work out which answer seems to best fit their expertise, their budget, their expectations, their needs and so on.