Thread: Abs problem I need to fix for roadworthy

My ABS used to deny me power assisted braking for the first 100 metres. On-line investigation showed a couple of instances of people sailing through red lights because ABS decided no power assist brakes required.

English LRover mag had short article where owner went for vehicle inspection with broken ABS. The inspector said the ABS was not considered a primary braking system (optional) and could be disconnected for MOT purposes and not affect regular power assist (an ABS disconnected becomes open to fluid flow or something like that). Different country of course with different views.

My understanding is that ABS stops brakes from locking, takes a longer distance to stop, but gives you better steering control to potentially go around objects, but how do you do that with the victim ahead and on all sides you have buses, cars, light poles, pedestrians, etc? Great on frozen lakes with witches hats. Off to look up some youtubes on it.

Originally Posted by Old Farang

Not looking to argue, just stating my experience. I would like to know how you do a "practice stop" however.

With my daughter and SWMBO, I got out on a deserted road (could literally see for miles!), and explained what would/should happen.

Then got them to do a series of hard braking stops in a straight line, each one at a higher speed. I usually start around 40 ks, then up it to 60, then 80, and finally, one at 100. They know they're going to stop, so the "panic" part isn't there, but I am the one that yells "Stop!"
Then you start again, this time, as you yell "Stop!!" you add "left!" or "right!" which is the direction they have to swerve in. The idea is, starting from the middle of the road, they have to get close to the edge of the road, without actually going off it.

I encourage them to do this themselves with any new vehicle they get. Going from a Barina to a Landcruiser makes a huge difference in effort, stability and control.

Feedback from the daughter, who had a near miss a few years ago, was that it would've definitely been a hit, without that training.

Scary thing is, most people never train their kids for this stuff. But they can probably do a reverse park and a hill start! When the proverbial hits the fan, most react with slamming on the anchors, and with a death-grip on the steering wheel, watching the obstacle all the way to impact.

Originally Posted by Old Farang

Not looking to argue, just stating my experience. I would like to know how you do a "practice stop" however.

ABS allows you to STEER the car while heavy braking, take the instance of approaching a stationary car at say, a set of traffic lights and you are travelling too fast, normal brakes would LOCK up and you would slide straight into the arse end of the vehicle in front.
ABS allows you to brake, without locking the steer wheels, allowing you to steer around an accident.
Any competent Driver Training Course, esp. track racing, will teach you how to steer while maximum braking is applied, It's the best thing since sliced bread and if an "Owner" disconnects it (ABS = Anti Skid Braking) and a fatality occurs I would imagine the person that disconnected it would be liable to at least Manslaughter charges.
DON'T **** WITH BRAKES, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

ABS allows you to STEER the car while heavy braking, take the instance of approaching a stationary car at say, a set of traffic lights and you are travelling too fast, normal brakes would LOCK up and you would slide straight into the arse end of the vehicle in front.
ABS allows you to brake, without locking the steer wheels, allowing you to steer around an accident.
Any competent Driver Training Course, esp. track racing, will teach you how to steer while maximum braking is applied, It's the best thing since sliced bread and if an "Owner" disconnects it (ABS = Anti Skid Braking) and a fatality occurs I would imagine the person that disconnected it would be liable to at least Manslaughter charges.
DON'T **** WITH BRAKES, Regards Frank.

As with most "innovations" on modern cars, some computer thingy replaces the drivers lack of knowledge, training or practice. If you did what I did and went to a skid pan for skid training you learnt how to pump the brakes, i.e. cadence braking. This takes the brakes up to the point where the wheel locks then releases them. The point is that you lose steering when the wheels are locked. To steer, as the wheels need to be turning, the brakes need either to be released or only applied enough to slow the wheel but not to stop it. We were trained to brake hard, heading towards a cone, to lock the wheels, turn the steering wheel, the car still headed in the same direction, and did until we released the brake. Straight away steering returned and the car veered off and missed the cone. Abs kind of does this, but you cannot control it, so, IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, you are better off without it. But the average driver has never been on a skid pan. It is not part of the driving test. So ABS is better for average drivers. In the UK, ANY warning light on the dash is a mandatory fail of the MOT (roadworthiness).

Originally Posted by Stanleysteamer

As with most "innovations" on modern cars, some computer thingy replaces the drivers lack of knowledge, training or practice. If you did what I did and went to a skid pan for skid training you learnt how to pump the brakes, i.e. cadence braking. This takes the brakes up to the point where the wheel locks then releases them. The point is that you lose steering when the wheels are locked. To steer, as the wheels need to be turning, the brakes need either to be released or only applied enough to slow the wheel but not to stop it. We were trained to brake hard, heading towards a cone, to lock the wheels, turn the steering wheel, the car still headed in the same direction, and did until we released the brake. Straight away steering returned and the car veered off and missed the cone. Abs kind of does this, but you cannot control it, so, IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, you are better off without it. But the average driver has never been on a skid pan. It is not part of the driving test. So ABS is better for average drivers. In the UK, ANY warning light on the dash is a mandatory fail of the MOT (roadworthiness).

And as most of us we grew up with out all these safety aids and we survived .
Yes if it is fitted it should work
It get`s me how people will only buy their children cars with these safety aid`s they seem to have forgotten the cars they drove when they learnt to drive were lucky to have a radio let alone a heater
No im not against all this new fad safety add on`s

I had an intermittent fault with my ABS, coming to a stop on a good dry day the ABS would activate. The ABS light would come on for a few days and disappear again.
Horrible feeling trying to slow down for an intersection and the brakes don't work.

With the light on you need to do a "blink test" it's really easy to do, there lots of info online about it.
It'll give you a code which will tell you what is wrong.
In my case both front wheels were playing up intermittently.

I did some investigating and there was a bit of play in the wheel bearings.
So I adjusted the pre-load on both wheel bearings and replaced the ABS sensor seals and retaining bushes.

Problem hasn't been back since.

ABS allows you to STEER the car while heavy braking, take the instance of approaching a stationary car at say, a set of traffic lights and you are travelling too fast, normal brakes would LOCK up and you would slide straight into the arse end of the vehicle in front.

I guess that you have never driven in Bangkok sir, where there is NO where to go except into another car, front, back, side and most probably on the footpath as well!

Originally Posted by beetroot

I had an intermittent fault with my ABS, coming to a stop on a good dry day the ABS would activate. The ABS light would come on for a few days and disappear again.
Horrible feeling trying to slow down for an intersection and the brakes don't work.

With the light on you need to do a "blink test" it's really easy to do, there lots of info online about it.
It'll give you a code which will tell you what is wrong.
In my case both front wheels were playing up intermittently.

I did some investigating and there was a bit of play in the wheel bearings.
So I adjusted the pre-load on both wheel bearings and replaced the ABS sensor seals and retaining bushes.

Problem hasn't been back since.

Hmm! I have a feeling that I heard somewhere that on more modern LR Discos, and RRs there is some tyre pressure sensor which, once it senses an imbalance of pressures, can send the rest of things haywire. As with so much maintenance, if the wheel bearings are right, the brake discs are OK, (I think you Aussies call them something else, don't you? Rotors or something?) there is sufficient grip on the pads, the ABS sensors are both clean and functioning and the part of the wheel that the sensor reads from, (have forgotten where that is, could be on the hub, or the disc I suppose) is OK too, then you should not have a problem. So it sounds as if you have solved it by not looking directly at the main problem but by looking at an indirect cause of the problem. Makes you wonder why the blessed machine cannot give you ABS anyway, when necessary, and then give a fault code "Wheel bearings need adjustment".

Last month, after a long day hauling my huge trailer with a ton, literally, of wine on board, I was only a mile or two from my destination. I came off the dual carriageway, on the edge of a big city and braked to a stop at a roundabout. Suddenly all manner of lights came on. ABS, HDC, you name it. Four in all. By the time I got to the hotel, stopped the engine, then restarted it, only one, the ABS was still on. The following morning, they had all gone off and never came back on! And in case you think I had been doing a ton of hard braking, I spent most of the day cruising on mortorways at reasonable speeds. Hard braking could conceivably have damaged my load, although it was very securely attached, so I would have avoided it at all costs. So random lights? Tell me about them! I also had the ACE light come on one day, about three months ago. In France I live 600 metres up a mountain and to get to town I have to go down very steep twisty roads, I was just beginning the descent when it happened. I could hear the ACE pump was not working, so I drove carefully but it was still OK, like a conventional vehicle I suppose. Stopped in town, did my biz, came back up the mountain road. Parked up, took the fuse out, it wasn't blown or dirty. Polished it anyway. Put it back in. Problem gone away. Pump went back on duty and has not stopped since! You tell me, I have no idea! Anyway, ACE is an overcomplicated way of "curing" roll on a car like ours. On my Disco 1 I took advice and put decent gas shockers on it. Boy did that make a difference to the handling, drove far more like a decent car than a truck. I love simple fixes!