Thread: 300tdi Auto weirdness

Originally Posted by manic

90c is pretty much normal operating temp, if the rise to 120c was fast you would be lucky to catch it even with a good guage.

....

Not necessarily!

eg. is my D1, normal operating range is 80-83C.
In really hot weather and in arduous going(eg. up steep hill, or heavy sand, I've seen it get to 85, but it always drops back down to it's preferred 83-80C.

Turn AC on tho, and I get a steady rise to 90 quite easily, and under harder load it climbs to the max I've see at 105C.
It could have risen more, and I dare say it would have, but I chickened out, turned off AC and slowed right down, and would have pulled over had it not started to drop.

Had I relied only on the dash temp gauge .. it doesn't seem to operate between the half way zone and the red zone.
The needled basically only works up to just under the halfway area, then must rise to the red zone in a matter of only a few seconds.

if it indicated a slow and steady rise as the coolant approached 90, then 95, and so on, it wouldn't be a problem at all .. it'd be easy to manage keep an eye on it and decide what the best action would be considering the conditions ahead and so forth ...

As it is tho, it's unusable, shows everything is OK, and only moves again once up to about 103-105C range.

Different matter tho if the coolant was suddenly all lost tho, as you say you probably couldn't catch that situation unless an alarm was fitted to show the coolant loss.

FWIW with mine at the moment, the heating up issue with A/C on is whilst on the move over 80k/h. Up to 80 k/h it's fine. hovers in the 88-89°C range, and can drop back to about 85-86°C. I'm guessing it's the 88°C thermostat doing it's job.
So I'm looking at radiator and thermofan mods to see if I can get it to maintain cooler coolant temps with the A/C too.

Originally Posted by AK83

Not necessarily!

eg. is my D1, normal operating range is 80-83C.
In really hot weather and in arduous going(eg. up steep hill, or heavy sand, I've seen it get to 85, but it always drops back down to it's preferred 83-80C.

Turn AC on tho, and I get a steady rise to 90 quite easily, and under harder load it climbs to the max I've see at 105C.
It could have risen more, and I dare say it would have, but I chickened out, turned off AC and slowed right down, and would have pulled over had it not started to drop.

Had I relied only on the dash temp gauge .. it doesn't seem to operate between the half way zone and the red zone.
The needled basically only works up to just under the halfway area, then must rise to the red zone in a matter of only a few seconds.

if it indicated a slow and steady rise as the coolant approached 90, then 95, and so on, it wouldn't be a problem at all .. it'd be easy to manage keep an eye on it and decide what the best action would be considering the conditions ahead and so forth ...

As it is tho, it's unusable, shows everything is OK, and only moves again once up to about 103-105C range.

Different matter tho if the coolant was suddenly all lost tho, as you say you probably couldn't catch that situation unless an alarm was fitted to show the coolant loss.

FWIW with mine at the moment, the heating up issue with A/C on is whilst on the move over 80k/h. Up to 80 k/h it's fine. hovers in the 88-89°C range, and can drop back to about 85-86°C. I'm guessing it's the 88°C thermostat doing it's job.
So I'm looking at radiator and thermofan mods to see if I can get it to maintain cooler coolant temps with the A/C too.

Originally Posted by AK83

FWIW with mine at the moment, the heating up issue with A/C on is whilst on the move over 80k/h. Up to 80 k/h it's fine. hovers in the 88-89°C range, and can drop back to about 85-86°C. I'm guessing it's the 88°C thermostat doing it's job.
So I'm looking at radiator and thermofan mods to see if I can get it to maintain cooler coolant temps with the A/C too.

Doesnt sound like you need those mods. 88C is the operating temp the thermostat is there to maintain. If your normal is 80-83C , you are running cold! Are you sure you have an 88 stat (stuck open?) and your guage is accurate?

Originally Posted by manic

Doesnt sound like you need those mods. 88C is the operating temp the thermostat is there to maintain. If your normal is 80-83C , you are running cold! Are you sure you have an 88 stat (stuck open?) and your guage is accurate?

Yeah, heard that before a few times.
From my experience(and this is just a personal preference) .. I think it's rubbish.
I prefer it to run at this 80-83C range if that's what it prefers to do.

Temps also recorded with an IR thermometer along the head. Some points reach 90-ish deg(give or take a couple), but most of it records in the 80-85 range, so I'm confident that the coolant gauge is accurate enough.
ps. I'm no actually interested in the absolute coolant values, more so the changes.

Thermostat was changed to a tridon 88C version(I also got a 78C version too, but ATM have no plans to use it)
Old thermostat was a Waxstat version barely opened up to allow flow, compared to the new Tridon, but irrespective the 300Tdi still ran at a consistent 83. Now it's more like 83, but it can get down to 80 as well. (so I quote it as 80-83)

Where it causes me concern is that with the A/C it prefer to run at over 100°C if I don't manage it.
That is, if I didn't have the coolant gauge, I'd just be happily motoring along with the coolant running at over 105C every time I run the A/C.
A/C is nice to have, but not a vital thing for me.
Those higher temps with the A/C on are only at 80+ k/h, hence why I'm leaning towards a non optimal radiator flow.
The other point could be the bullbar(TJM style), possibly not directing enough flow from underneath or something.
I don't think that the front isn't impeded a lot even tho there's a short lightbar. Lightbar has a good flow design.

But this heating up with A/C on isn't limited to 80+ speeds, it also happens just under a load, eg. uphill climb windy road even at 40k/h.
On the downhill, it cools down quickly tho.

But in terms of operating temps... I'm happy with 83 as an average. I also have an oil temp gauge, and it could be a bit inaccurate, but generally returns 60-65C.
Will climb up with the added heat that the A/C issue causes too, and take a lot longer to cool down than the coolant does.

When I tested the thermostats:
Both in the same bucket of boiled water, adding boiled water to maintain temps and stuff.
Tridon reacted immediately to the hot water, and opened much quicker when freshly boiled water was introduced.
Waxstat barely move a half a mil. Took minutes to finally start to open(with 100°C water added continually on it).
Water chucked and test started again, Tridon opening, water on waxstat and barely any movement. This is the waxstat that had the coolant running at 83.
Finally the waxstat would open to what seemed to be it's full flow, barely 2mm or so, and held it there as cold water was added to bring water in the bucket to the mid 80s.
Tridon on the other hand started to close up from full flow. Waxstat hardly moved again.
With no water, was the only time the waxstat reacted quickly, and closed up as quickly as the tridon did.

Only thing I'm finding hard to test is the temp of the radiator at top and bottom.
I may get some stick on probes and some gauges to show a rough idea of what it's doing as I'm driving along.

Obviously the A/C condenser is transferring it's additional heat into the coolant rad.
What's curious tho is that even in high 30's heat with no AC, I barely see any increase in coolant temps either, even under a hill climb type load.

Anyhow, back onto your issue: have you had any luck tracking down a likely culprit?

Still waiting for the weekend, till then its just chat.

Tridon thermostat, thats good info. Will get one next coolant change. Faster reaction cant be bad.

As for temp monitoring I think I will go for a two stage alarm set up. I dont want an extra guage screwed into the dash if I can avoid it.

The thermostat housing has a fan switch for the condensor. I beleive it cuts in somewhere around 100C. Im thinking of replacing it with a dual switch

In 105°C - out 100°C
In 120°C - out 115°C

First switch activates condenser fans and lights an orange warning LED on the dash which will tell me to ease up and watch out.

Second triggers a CHECK ENGINE alarm that is very loud and cannot be ignored.

The AC has a 115C cut out, so land rover must have considered this point very close to the upper limit! When it cuts out the temp should fall so no need to terrify the driver with an EMERGENCY alarm at this point. But if it continues to rise to 120C THE EMERGENCY CHECK ENGINE ALARM GOES OFF!!

The amber warning will be enough for me, the red alert is there to stop a guest driver from driving it to destruction.

[QUOTE=manic;2751792]Still waiting for the weekend, till then its just chat.

Originally Posted by manic

Tridon thermostat, thats good info. Will get one next coolant change. Faster reaction cant be bad.

Part number I got was the TT388-190(88°C) and a TT388-180(78°C).
I looked for markings on what they each were and couldnt' see nothing till I eventually looked deep into the tubular copper valve bit, and it's hard to see but it is marked.
Not only was it faster reacting, but after sitting for a few minutes in the boiled water(and sometimes adding fresh boiled water), the tridon showed about a 10mm gap betwen body and valve, whereas the Waxstat was barely 2 or 3mm .. so better flowing(or less restrictive) from the Tridon.
Stupid me, didn't take pictures whilst I was at it, and now I can't locate the old Waxstat one either.
I may end up getting a new one just to satisfy my own curiosity on whether the old Waxstat was just degrading itself to a non opening condition, or is that it's design.

Originally Posted by manic

As for temp monitoring I think I will go for a two stage alarm set up. I dont want an extra guage screwed into the dash if I can avoid it.

I'm the same re: gauges. Not a fan of the million and one gauges look, so I chose the 1Gauge. Just the one decently sized LCD gauge(about 3"), which fits perfectly in the overhead blanking console. Cabling was easy, the brain box is in the drivers drop down lid for the fuse box access etc.
Displays 7 gauges if you have a dual battery setup(6 if not), came with all the proper(VDO) sensors required and K type thermocouple .. and I just had to get adapters to suit the sensors.
For $500 I think it's good value. More than anything about it is that I liked it's logging ability, although I'd prefer if it could also keep time for that as well.

Originally Posted by manic

The thermostat housing has a fan switch for the condensor. I beleive it cuts in somewhere around 100C. Im thinking of replacing it with a dual switch

In 105°C - out 100°C
In 120°C - out 115°C

First switch activates condenser fans and lights an orange warning LED on the dash which will tell me to ease up and watch out.

Second triggers a CHECK ENGINE alarm that is very loud and cannot be ignored.

I can't remember if the A/C thermo fans cut in at or near 100°C when I've had it that hot. Like I said, my priority is to manage it as I can.
Coolant temp rises slowly unless the road is steep, no matter the gear, or EGT reading. But with A/C off coolant drops quicker than if I leave A/C on and the road levels out or starts to drop.

Originally Posted by manic

The AC has a 115C cut out, so land rover must have considered this point very close to the upper limit! When it cuts out the temp should fall so no need to terrify the driver with an EMERGENCY alarm at this point. But if it continues to rise to 120C THE EMERGENCY CHECK ENGINE ALARM GOES OFF!!

The amber warning will be enough for me, the red alert is there to stop a guest driver from driving it to destruction.

Again, I chicken out wayyy before those temps are achieved. Max I've yet seen has been 105C, and the first time I pulled over to be sure I wasn't loosing coolant. In fact did that a few times, before I realised what was going on with the A/C.
Engine never felt overly hot, but definitely was hotter in the hoses and felt much more pressurised than it usually feels.

Another thing I liked about the 1Gauge was it's ability to drive both relays and warning lights as well as those other things I liked about it.
Can connect up to 3 relays for the various sensors/probes and two warning lights if needed. Kit comes with two leds in chrome bezels too, but yet another thing I like about it's operation is that once configured(easy to do) to set an upper limit to any sensor value, that section of the LCD display inverts colour as a warning too.

So, as an example EGT is set to 695(as I'm going by the accepted 700C upper limit that many have advised about).
The LCD is white on blue, and up in the blank console above the rear view mirror. Without taking eyes off road, when the EGT square on the LCD inverts, it's easy to notice in your periphery vision. That is I can't actually distinguish the value itself, the change from white on blue to blue on white is the distraction.
Since I got mine, the 1Gauge chap has also allowed new LCD options for colour, being green/yellow and white/black.
I would have preferred white on black (I think his does black on white).
Another slight loss of points on the product is that out in the deep bush with no lights whatsoever whilst driving, I find the display a little too bright, even tho it does dim when the dash lights come on(ie. parkers or headlights).
The chap did explain that it can be modded to make it a bit dimmer if wanted, and would email me the details on which resistor to change, but it's not a major issue.

I do have a bit of a write up on it .. search 1Gauge on here .. should come up.
(note! .. my actual install is a bit of a bodge, in that the console panel cutout is very rough, so it looks badly home made. But the panel was badly botched anyhow when I got the D1 due to an owner having installed a compass up there).

I reckon install shouldn't take more than a couple of hours all up. The hardest part, and why mine took about two weeks to get it fully going, was figuring out what adapter types were needed.
In the end for the coolant, I went with a 1/4BSP brass plug with a 1/8th NPT access for the coolant sensor(longer type) to fit into the thermostat housing plug access(replaces the weak plastic bung there anyhow).
For oil temp, I used the shorter VDO sensor, and as I also wanted oil pressure, I needed two adpaters to also keep the standard oil pressure warning light sensor as well.
That sensor uses a M10 fitting. If you forgo the std oil sensor, a second adapter isn't needed. But the adapter is then a simple $20 M10 to whatever sensor size you choose(1/8NPT, or M10 and I think even M12).

May sound expensive at $500, but considering the price of a Madmad, and that the gauge price doesn't include any sensors or adapters .. it's much cheaper overall.

Yeah I think 1gauge would be the go if I wanted to properly monitor the D1. But Ive picked her up at 20 years old with no mods, and Im not looking to upgrade or modify, just restore and maintain.

Whilst on a stock tune I think she'll be alright with dash warning lights plus a low coolant and high temp alarm. Thermo switch and wiring is all I need as I already have the check engine light and buzzer tapped.

The defender has a madman and with all the mods and tune ups I pretty much drive to the readouts when on the highway. But it can be distracting and all the extra wiring puts me off doing the same in the D1. I want to keep this one simple as. If something major is wrong it can flash a light or buzz me, otherwise it can get on with it like it has for the past 20 years.

New hoses arrived just in time. $39 delivered - thank you China!

Don't suppose u can share the eBay link?

Originally Posted by manic

New hoses arrived just in time. $39 delivered - thank you China!