Thread: Starting gremlin - D1 300Tdi

Originally Posted by nice1guv

Anyone had a similar problem?

There's one or two on here wth a very similar problem.

The problem hasn't been found yet though & might need some test gear hooked up.
A wire direct to the starter solenoid has been my suggestion so far - that way power to the solenoid can be easily checked on a hot engine & if no power is present, it can be easily applied to get the motor started.

I used to have a 300Tdi and had a similar problem. Wouldn't happen at petrol stations or if I was only stopped for 5 minutes, but on occasions in summer, if I stopped for about 20 minutes or more, it would sometimes do it.

I paid $180 to get a new solenoid fitted to the starter motor and it didn't make a difference. It was my idea to replace it, so I don't blame the auto electrician. My solution was to just turn the key back and forth until it started and it never took more than about 10 attempts (about 5 seconds!). And really, it didn't happen often...just feels like it's often when you've got people with you!!!

I've heard that heatsoak from the turbo (it's just above the starter) can cause it. And that seems to make sense to me as it only happened if the car had sat for a little while - and in summer. But I have no idea why heat could cause this.

And I have also been told that older Falcons had this problem as their starter motor was right under the exhaut manifold too. Certainly my parents old XE falcon displayed similar symptoms to my Disco. They could be totally unrelated and everything I've said could be rubbish - I really don't know - but it made sense to me.

I was also told by a few auto electricians that fitting a new relay in to the system and getting the existing wire off the starter to just trigger the relay (while you fit a nice new quality connection from the battery through the relay to the starter). This would mean you would get a much better connection from the battery to the starter, so if the problem was the starter not getting the full 12v then this should rectify it. But I never fitted this (I intended to, but decided I could handle the hassle of turning the key until it started).

Hope that made sense and hopefully anyone who knows more can shed more light.

Oh, and the first time it happened I got NRMA to come out, 1 hour later they came out, turned the key and it started...go figure. I didn't think to just keep trying to start it before I called them.

Pete

Originally Posted by Scouse

A wire direct to the starter solenoid has been my suggestion so far - that way power to the solenoid can be easily checked on a hot engine & if no power is present, it can be easily applied to get the motor started.

That's what I was going to do with a small set of starter leads I have - connect direct to the starter, but it started before I could try this.
Will definitely try this if it happens again, to at least get going.

Originally Posted by Pavo

My solution was to just turn the key back and forth until it started and it never took more than about 10 attempts (about 5 seconds!).

I certainly turned it more than 10 times over about 15mins all up, including the other checks I did. Still didn't want to start.

Originally Posted by Pavo

I was also told by a few auto electricians that fitting a new relay in to the system and getting the existing wire off the starter to just trigger the relay (while you fit a nice new quality connection from the battery through the relay to the starter). This would mean you would get a much better connection from the battery to the starter, so if the problem was the starter not getting the full 12v then this should rectify it.
Hope that made sense and hopefully anyone who knows more can shed more light.

This sounds like a good idea. The starter started fine later, I assume after something had cooled down, so I think the starter is ok.

It wasn't even getting solenoid clicking, so I thought there might be something between the battery and the solenoid not working properly, or maybe the solenoid was sticking in the heat?

Pavo is onto it.
VOLTAGE DROP!!!!
First check is to remove the SMALL trigger wire off the starter motor.Clean thoroughly,squeeze the contacts tighter with pliers and all SHOULD be good.
You shouldnt need to revert to the Falcoon relay setup.I have done so in Series landys with non stock engines,and owned 2 falcoons that suffered the same.
Clean the trigger contact and all will be good
Andrew

I had the same problem in my Blue Defender. Everything works but no start, and like the others have said it was the solenoid on the starter motor.

It happened to me in some pretty awkward situations, but my quick fix was to jump out, lift the bonnet and give the side of the starter motor a quick knock with an adjustable spanner. Seemed to work after that every time.

Stopped doing it after a while, I think it may have something to do with the weather but who knows its a Landy

I did have a new solenoid lined up to go in but I never got round to pulling the starter motor off and fitting the new one.

Hopefully LandyAndy's solution of cleaning up and tightening the grip of the solenoid ignition wire works for you - it didn't for me. I failed to mention in my post that I also tried that. Mine had a very good connection after I fixed it and I still had the same problem.

My starter was a bosch brand, and the replacement was also a bosch brand and I still had the symptoms up until I no longer had the car.

But unlike your experience, mine always started eventually.

I've also read things about some 'spider' unit or wiring harness in the past and how they can immobilsie the Disco 1s. Have you done a search on that?

Pete

Originally Posted by Pavo

I've also read things about some 'spider' unit or wiring harness in the past and how they can immobilsie the Disco 1s. Have you done a search on that?

The spider thing is the factory immobiliser. I don't have one of these as I have an after market immobiliser/alarm, that can be bypassed if needed. I bypassed it, but that made no difference.

I'll be checking the starter motor connections on the weekend, so I'll see how that goes.

Fit the relay as it will fix the problem.

The problem IS caused by arcing across the terminals in the ignition switch which then causes voltage drop due to resistance.

It can also be caused by the wiring but the ignition switch will have wear but fiting the relay will reduce the amps that the ignition switch has to carry there for alieviating the problem.

Wire up as follows:

-remove the trigger wire from the terminal on the starter motor
-run about a 5mm cable from both the starter main terminal and the trigger terminal to where the relay will be.
-bring original trigger wire up to where the relay will be
fit to terminals as follows:

86 - Ignition trigger
85 - Earth
30 - Main power
87 - New starter Trigger wire




Cheers Damo