Thread: the real truth

Originally Posted by Mr Whippy

Tank,
Where do you get your service intervals from. Here is a copy of my service schedule from my D1 hand book.



Dave.

Yes that is in my handbook too.I change my engine oil every 5000K as it was advised to me by a very experienced Landy mechanic.His reasoning was the fact that diesels run dirty and new bellyfull every 5000k is more then helpful in prolonging the life of the motor.I do it ,it doesn,t take long ,my motor has over 300000 k on it now and does not burn much between services ( if any).I think, all up, it is a personal choice.
John.

Dave and Jono, 5K is an accepted klms for an oil change for a TDi, it costs me (doing the work myself) around $80 for oil and Filter and takes less than an hour so if you add $60 labour you are looking at $140 every 5K.
For my 93 D1 Disco with V8 it costs me $50 for oil and filter and if I had to pay for labour $110 all up every 12K.
Over a 100K interval the diesel would cost $2800, whereas the V8 Petrol would cost $880.
Now take some other costs. I can replace a timing chain in my V8 Disco for around $120, not including labour and it would last the life of the engine.
The 300TDi requires a new timing belt and tensioners every 80K at a cost around $300+ (not including labour) and would have to be replaced at least 3 times in its service life.
A common occurrence with TDi's is a blown head gasket and usually accompanied with overheating and sometimes a warped head. I can have a set of V8 heads fully reco'd for less than a $1000, a replacement head for a 300TDi is around $1500 bare, every serviceable item on a diesel is more expensive than for a petrol engine and diesels are more prone to destruction IF not serviced correctly and regularly, and as stated in my post if you can't do the work yourself then you should have plenty of funds to pay your mechanic.
Land Rover petrol engines if serviced properly will equal or in most cases outlast a 300TDi, the 300TDi seems to start having problems around the 250K to 300K mark, I have had over 300K out of my V8 LR engines with little or no problems.
The ONLY advantage of a 300TDi over the V8 is fuel consumption, but a good LPG injection system will eliminate that advantage, BTW I own a 93 D1 Disco with a 4L V8 (40,000klms) and a 94 300TDi, I am selling the V8 because I can't afford to convert to LPG injection, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

Dave and Jono, 5K is an accepted klms for an oil change for a TDi, it costs me (doing the work myself) around $80 for oil and Filter and takes less than an hour so if you add $60 labour you are looking at $140 every 5K.
For my 93 D1 Disco with V8 it costs me $50 for oil and filter and if I had to pay for labour $110 all up every 12K.
Over a 100K interval the diesel would cost $2800, whereas the V8 Petrol would cost $880.
Now take some other costs. I can replace a timing chain in my V8 Disco for around $120, not including labour and it would last the life of the engine.
The 300TDi requires a new timing belt and tensioners every 80K at a cost around $300+ (not including labour) and would have to be replaced at least 3 times in its service life.
A common occurrence with TDi's is a blown head gasket and usually accompanied with overheating and sometimes a warped head. I can have a set of V8 heads fully reco'd for less than a $1000, a replacement head for a 300TDi is around $1500 bare, every serviceable item on a diesel is more expensive than for a petrol engine and diesels are more prone to destruction IF not serviced correctly and regularly, and as stated in my post if you can't do the work yourself then you should have plenty of funds to pay your mechanic.
Land Rover petrol engines if serviced properly will equal or in most cases outlast a 300TDi, the 300TDi seems to start having problems around the 250K to 300K mark, I have had over 300K out of my V8 LR engines with little or no problems.
The ONLY advantage of a 300TDi over the V8 is fuel consumption, but a good LPG injection system will eliminate that advantage, BTW I own a 93 D1 Disco with a 4L V8 (40,000klms) and a 94 300TDi, I am selling the V8 because I can't afford to convert to LPG injection, Regards Frank.

When I purchased my tdi I did not know the history of the cam belt so I changed it. Belt cost about $30 plus a couple of oil seals about $15 and you don't need to change tensioner every time.

The money saved on the gas conversion could be used to fit a set of timing gears and therefore no belt to worry about.

Oil filter $10 to $12 and oil $40

As for service intervals no way known am I going to do 5000k services and I do do all my own. I just had a look at my service book that came with the car and from new it has been done between 10 to 12000 km intervals.

My tdi now has about 302000 and is going as good as new.

As for heads I have heard of tdi heads for around a grand.

Now lets talk about the fuel. Ok if it is on gas it will come close to the tdi
but try and get gas at birdsville. And don't forget the four grand to fit gas.

If I planed to keep my D1 long enough, which I am not I would put a 2.8 tdi into it. I think these also don't have belts to worry about.

Dave.

2.8 tdi if mine ever goes its getting a 3 lt isuzu out of a early ra rodeo
also you car'nt run a petrol on oil so what extra i spend on service (my extras) is well and truly cheaper to run
plus reliablity in the bush is alot better if your altinator ****s its self your stuffed with the desiel it'll keap going

The LR Workshop manual says for Australian conditions the engine oil should be changed every 5000klm or 3000 miles, I notice your oil change schedule says to change the oil, but only change the oil filter every second oil change, real smart.
The timing belt wears out mainly because it doesn't run true or at the proper tension, so let me know how much it costs to replace bent valves and maybe damaged pistons WHEN your timing belt fails.
$40 for 6L of oil, must be good stuff, what's it called, don't forget fuel filter.
If you can buy a new 300TDi head for around a grand I would love to know where as I need one, let me know what it costs to get your injection pump rebuilt when it packs in I'd be interested to see how it compares to a V8 petrol fuel pump, diesels are great, I have one myself, stating that diesels are cheap to service and maintain is ridiculous, esp. if you have to pay someone to do it for you. Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by hillbilliywheelchair

2.8 tdi if mine ever goes its getting a 3 lt isuzu out of a early ra rodeo
also you car'nt run a petrol on oil so what extra i spend on service (my extras) is well and truly cheaper to run
plus reliablity in the bush is alot better if your altinator ****s its self your stuffed with the desiel it'll keap going

Jono, drop a timing belt in the bush and you are right royally stuffed, so what's your point, how much do you think it will cost to rebuild your 2.8 when it's stuffed, I'll bet it will be more than your vehicle is worth, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

............ stating that diesels are cheap to service and maintain is ridiculous, esp. if you have to pay someone to do it for you. Regards Frank.

Depends on the diesel.

Mine is coming up to 500,000km next service, total repairs :- sump gasket, crankshaft seals, a couple of O-rings, three thermostats, alternator twice, starter twice.

Fuel filters, $4, oil filters $12. Admittedly takes 8l of rather expensive oil, but uses none between 10k changes. Gear driven camshaft and pump so no belt or chain.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Depends on the diesel.

Mine is coming up to 500,000km next service, total repairs :- sump gasket, crankshaft seals, a couple of O-rings, three thermostats, alternator twice, starter twice.

Fuel filters, $4, oil filters $12. Admittedly takes 8l of rather expensive oil, but uses none between 10k changes. Gear driven camshaft and pump so no belt or chain.

John

Marvellous John, but we are talking about the 300TDi, which when you read through this Forum seems to start having problems around 300K, esp. head gasket and cooling problems. The Land Rover Workshop manual states oil and filter changes at 5000klms for Australian conditions and Fuel. I recently bought a 94 Disco 1 300TDi with Auto, the logbooks show servicing every 5K from new, it has 385,000klms and in the first month I replaced the timing belt and fitted the flanged crank and tensioner pulley, water pump, head gasket, drive belts, alternator, all the tensioner and pulley bearings, filters and oil and radiator, cost over $2000, no labour costs.
My previous 93 Disco 3.5 V8 was serviced from new every 20,000klms, it had 365,000klms when I sold it a few years back, I had receipts for every service and item bought for that vehicle. In 12 years the only items replaced, drive belts, twice, rad. hoses, tensioner pulleys once, plugs, dissy cap and rotor, plug leads. The V8 will cost much less than half the cost of service for the 300TDi.
One service/rebuild on a diesel injection pump will cost more than an entire lifetimes service cost of a V8, it may not have happened yet, But it will if you keep it long enough, Regards Frank.