Thread: D2a - replacement fluid for ACE system

Originally Posted by twr7cx

From what I understand Testbook is Land Rovers diagnostic system. Is this publicly available or a dealer only item?

I have a "Hawkeye" diagnostic computer and it does have the facility to bleed the ACE system.

Originally Posted by Urban Panzer

You dont "have" to use any specifc fluid, Dexron II or III NON synthetic PAS / Autobox fluid will be fine as well.

Why ?

The base fluids of the original Texaco PAS 14315 were a 'synthetic' type, although of which type I'm not sure.

I know of at least one person here using Transmax Z, a PAO/ester full synthetic ATF DexIII/ZF approved fluid as their ACE fluid. (and it's green )

FWIW Pentosin make hydraulic fluids for most of the continental makes, and older cars from VW/Audi, BMW and Volvo used Pentosin CHF 7.1 which was a mineral based fluid. Pentosin state that their later full synthetic CHF 11S (Audi, Chrysler, MB, Mini, Rolls, Porsche, Saab, Volvo) and CHF 202 (Audi, Porsche, VW, Volvo) fluids may replace the earlier fluid.

[edit] I forgot to mention that I believe Texaco Cold Climate PSF 33270 replaced their earlier CC PSF 14315. (and is listed as a replacement fluid for Texaco/Land Rover PAS/ACE CC PSF 14315)
Texaco CC 33270 is a semi-synthetic fluid like Cold Climate 14315 and also a direct replacement for Pentosin CHF 11S, and CHF 11S is a full synthetic fluid as I mentioned above.

if you want it to last,, used transmax z, its only a colpe Ls so go spend the extra 10-20$ and get the Z,

Found this on Discoweb some time ago when looking for a method...

"I have an easier way to do it, pretty much the same way as I do my power steering.
Buy 2 qts. of power steering fluid, I use Vavolines synthetic p/s fluid and one bottle of Lucas p/s additive.
Buy one of those old battery acid bulbs, looks like a turkey baster, you can find them in any auto parts store.
Start by sucking all the old fluid out of the ACE reservor, poor in new fluis, start the engine, let it run or 30 seconds or so, turn off the engine and suck out the old fluid again. You continue that process, maybe 5 or 6 time or until the old fluid is now clear again. On the last refilling of the reservoruse only the Lucas fluid, top it off and you are done.
By doing it this way, you don't get air in either of the rams and you don't have to use a test book to reprogram the system.
By the way, do your p/s fluid at the same time with the same fluids in the same process.
Hope this helps"

Originally Posted by rick130

Why ?

The base fluids of the original Texaco PAS 14315 were a 'synthetic' type, although of which type I'm not sure.

I know of at least one person here using Transmax Z, a PAO/ester full synthetic ATF DexIII/ZF approved fluid as their ACE fluid. (and it's green )

FWIW Pentosin make hydraulic fluids for most of the continental makes, and older cars from VW/Audi, BMW and Volvo used Pentosin CHF 7.1 which was a mineral based fluid. Pentosin state that their later full synthetic CHF 11S (Audi, Chrysler, MB, Mini, Rolls, Porsche, Saab, Volvo) and CHF 202 (Audi, Porsche, VW, Volvo) fluids may replace the earlier fluid.

[edit] I forgot to mention that I believe Texaco Cold Climate PSF 33270 replaced their earlier CC PSF 14315. (and is listed as a replacement fluid for Texaco/Land Rover PAS/ACE CC PSF 14315)
Texaco CC 33270 is a semi-synthetic fluid like Cold Climate 14315 and also a direct replacement for Pentosin CHF 11S, and CHF 11S is a full synthetic fluid as I mentioned above.

Because thats what the workshop manual says, and after a LOT of reading about fluid specs etc to find which was a compatible spec, one of them that cropped up was the CHF-11s which some users "report" made the system squeal, especially when used in the PAS, this "maybe" to do with the fact its synthetic.

People have to make their own choice at the end of the day........but if you follow the workshop manual / specs, you cant go to far wrong.

ACE fluid
Where ambient temperature falls below -20° C (-4°
F), use only Texaco cold climate power assisted
steering fluid PSF 14315. Where ambient
temperature remains above -20° C (-4° F), use either
Texaco cold climate power assisted steering fluid ,
Dexron 11 or Dexron 111 non-synthetic fluid.

Originally Posted by Urban Panzer

Because thats what the workshop manual says, and after a LOT of reading about fluid specs etc to find which was a compatible spec, one of them that cropped up was the CHF-11s which some users "report" made the system squeal, especially when used in the PAS, this "maybe" to do with the fact its synthetic.

People have to make their own choice at the end of the day........but if you follow the workshop manual / specs, you cant go to far wrong.

ACE fluid
Where ambient temperature falls below -20° C (-4°
F), use only Texaco cold climate power assisted
steering fluid PSF 14315. Where ambient
temperature remains above -20° C (-4° F), use either
Texaco cold climate power assisted steering fluid ,
Dexron 11 or Dexron 111 non-synthetic fluid.

I agree that using the OE recommended fluids is important, however I can't for the life of me understand how a syn ATF DEX III can be detrimental to a system, particularly when the recommended fluid is a semi-synthetic !
I'm guessing typo, I've seen enough of them in my Land Rover manuals.

FWIW I've used a non-syn ATF Dex III in the PAS of my 'fender and it was awful (when I ran out of PAS 14315, IIRC it was Fuchs Titan ATF7000 and it was a total fluid change, not mixed)
Groan, moan, yuk.
Changed it to Transmax Z and it's almost exactly the same as PAS 14315 in feel, no squeal, no moan and copes with heat much better (too many viscosity index improver's in 14315 to get its high VI)

Groan, moan and squeal are common when ATF's are used in PAS systems as they don't have the specific friction modifiers to address those problems. (it doesn't exist in a transmission)
Specific PAS/hydraulic fluids do.

I can't answer why CHF 11S created a system squeal, it's the recommended fluid in a lot of PAS systems and recommended by Pentosin for use in all Land Rovers. (although no LR approval)
I'd suggest the system wasn't bled properly, but who knows ?


IMO, if one is doing a lot of hard off road a syntheic fluid is pretty important as the PAS fluid can cop an absolute caning, to the point of boiling, particularly as no Land Rover I know of has a PAS cooler (as, say Nissan Patrols do)

The problem with using different fluids other than recommended is that you may be mixing different products, not a good thing. Draining the reservoir and refilling doesn't work

I recently had the power steering box out of our Puma which meant that the oil was drained from the pump lines and the reservoir. When refilling the system took under 1 litre. By Land Rover specs the system holds 3.4 litres for the RHD vehicle.

One way to bleed the system:

1 Drain the reservoir
2 Remove the return line and put into a container
3 Block the return line port on the reservoir
4 Fill the reservoir with the new fluid
5 Run the engine, turn from lock to lock, making sure the reservoir doesn't run dry
6 Repeat this until you have removed about 4 litres of fluid.
7 Replace the return line.


Having said that, if you go to the Dealer Spare parts counter and buy a 1 litre bottle of cold climate PAS it will set you back $63.

Erich

I can see both sides, all I posted was what was in the manual........and I def dont think its a typo tbh because its only listed as an alternative in the NAS manual, not the UK / European one because the yanks dont put up with the crap we have to etc.

I think what ever you use, if it works for you then thats great, but we all have to be careful what we post as alternatives for stuff unless we can provide hard and fast facts which unfortunately it seems pretty hard to establish ref the Texaco fluid and alternatives.

Interesting what you say ref the PAS fluid as the Disco 1 used ATF from day zero, and its common practice "over here" to use it in the PAS on the D2 as well, infact most of the recon steering boxes state ATF as a recommend fluid to use.

I think all we can def say is that whatever fluid you can use in the PAS can be used in the ACE and vice versa.