hydrogen

So, where does the energy come from to split water into hydrogen and oxygen? ... your alternator, which is powered by your engine. So, unless magic happens, the energy going in is more than the energy coming out. Secondly, if you use acid to make the water easier to split, you need to have water traps to remove the acid from the hydrogen, otherwise the air intake corrodes up. Maintenance on this is critical, if you don't want to wreck your engine.

One of the claims is that it makes the fuel burn more completely, similar to gas injection mixes. These typically use 1.5 to 2% mix (? from recollection), so that's a lot of hydorgen to create.

I agree with all of the other sentiments against hydrogen, but the plumbing from the seat to the engine is a bit tricky.

There is a fellow on the 101 club forum who built a wood chip gassifier in the back of his 101. It works.
But that stuff is old technology that was done over half a century ago.
Not many wood chip loading stations about either.

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Originally Posted by bsperka

So, where does the energy come from to split water into hydrogen and oxygen? ... your alternator, which is powered by your engine. So, unless magic happens, the energy going in is more than the energy coming out. Secondly, if you use acid to make the water easier to split, you need to have water traps to remove the acid from the hydrogen, otherwise the air intake corrodes up. Maintenance on this is critical, if you don't want to wreck your engine.

One of the claims is that it makes the fuel burn more completely, similar to gas injection mixes. These typically use 1.5 to 2% mix (? from recollection), so that's a lot of hydorgen to create.

I agree with all of the other sentiments against hydrogen, but the plumbing from the seat to the engine is a bit tricky.

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I wish I could do a double thanks on this one. There are a lot of people that don't understand where the energy comes from. They also do not understand how much energy is lost in an internal combustuon engine.

For the plumbing, you'll get lots of inspiration if you spend an afternoon in Bunnings. I'm sure you'll work something out.

Fuel cells are an interesting technology in this area and they still have a way to go to get fully functional as far as I can tell but this is promising as far as squeezing more milage from you tank of fuel with membranes and proton stripping catalysts and stuff I don't fully have a grip on. The rest is recycled wishful thinking but energy loosing dumb ideas.

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Originally Posted by John W

Fuel cells are an interesting technology in this area and they still have a way to go to get fully functional as far as I can tell but this is promising as far as squeezing more milage from you tank of fuel with membranes and proton stripping catalysts and stuff I don't fully have a grip on. The rest is recycled wishful thinking but energy loosing dumb ideas.

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Fuel cells are old technology. I'd like to see that technology used more.
The major problem is to be able to produce the quantities of hydrogen required in a cost effective way.

Bigger problem with hydrogen is making sure the car doesn't go bang if something goes wrong.

Brisbane City has just grounded half of its bus fleet (>500 buses) because an LNG tank exploded today. No one hurt luckily, it was just sitting in the depot, but it did damage two buses. Hydrogen is much worse.

They are working on developing 'sponges', made out of palladium and other materials that can store hydrogen quite densely, and yet safely in case of an accident.

Switzerland used to run a fleet of buses using flywheel technology. Plug them in overnight while a motor spun them up, unplug them for the day, and drive around, converting rotational kinetic energy to electric energy and back to kinetic again.

Again, big problem in an accident because if those flywheels let loose, they're storing an awfully large amount of energy in them and they can go flying.

I actually demonstrated to a guy how much an electrical load cost him in relative terms, but showing him the scanner reading of injector times when various electrical items were switched on and off. Imagine a continuous 100 amp load to produce noticeable amounts of hydrogen and its effect on fuel consumption. Electrical energy from the alternator is not free. And wears out expensive alternators.:)

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Originally Posted by bee utey

I actually demonstrated to a guy how much an electrical load cost him in relative terms, but showing him the scanner reading of injector times when various electrical items were switched on and off. Imagine a continuous 100 amp load to produce noticeable amounts of hydrogen and its effect on fuel consumption. Electrical energy from the alternator is not free. And wears out expensive alternators.:)

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100%, this was just one of the problems my mate and his dad found.

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Originally Posted by bsperka

I agree with all of the other sentiments against hydrogen, but the plumbing from the seat to the engine is a bit tricky.

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I've found that by installing a Hiclone in the "suction" end of the ducting that I've plumbed under the seat, and a second one in the other end of the pipe just before the junction with the engine air intake - the combined "vortex" effect created within the plumbing promotes far more efficient recovery of gases from my baked bean gas generator. My fuel economy has since improved astronomically. :p

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Originally Posted by BMKal

I've found that by installing a Hiclone in the "suction" end of the ducting that I've plumbed under the seat, and a second one in the other end of the pipe just before the junction with the engine air intake - the combined "vortex" effect created within the plumbing promotes far more efficient recovery of gases from my baked bean gas generator. My fuel economy has since improved astronomically. :p

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Ahemm - isn't that Methane and not odourless Hydrogen ;)