Thread: hydrogen

Originally Posted by Casper

Actually Hydrogen is a lot safer than CNG or LPG as both are heavier than air and sit close to the ground when they escape, Hydrogen is lighter than air and evaporates rather fast almost eliminating the chance of accidental ignition as long as basic safety precautions are taken.

The relative safety of one vs the other I don't want to comment on, just because something is hazardous does not mean it can't be managed safely.

However, Hydrogen has just about the lowest ignition energy of any commonly available gas or vapour (10x less than light hydrocarbons) and it ignites explosively over just about the widest air / fuel mixture of any commonly available gas or vapour.

~ 4 - 75% (hydrogen)
~ 2 - 10% (light hydro carbon gases)
~ 1.5 -7.5% (petrol)

Backyard plumbers be advised.

Originally Posted by greg smith

has anyone tried the hydrogen generator on a td5? was looking at one today and given the spiel BUT is it ok to use on the landrover system. I have a discotd5 2002,,,????

Hey Greg,
In a nut shell HHO generators do work when done right and don't work when done cheap.
I've worked in the petroleum industry for over 15 years, my last consulting assignment was for a alternate fuel manufacturer. In this case I designed and developed several options for my customer that they intend to fit to utes/light trucks imported from Asia.

Here are some key points to remember when talking HHO generators.
- efficency is the key! The Dry Cell you use needs to use as little amps per litre of gas produced as possible. Heat plays a big part here as well as plate materials and assembly of the unit.
- You will need a pulse width modulator (PWM) with two amperage settings and the input to change between them automatically based on city or hwy driving. Best MPG is normally on the Hwy.
- the PWM only needs 40amp MAX. Any more is a waste.
- You need to use a gas scrubber/bubbler, this cleans the gas of any foaming produced in the cell and keeps your engine safe from corrosion.
- If your vehicle is EFI then it will use lambda (O2) sensors, most newer cars have a Lambda sensor on the intake and in the exhaust. you will need to be able to change the signal these sensors send to the ECU other wise you will definitely use more fuel as the sensors read a low O2 level in the intake air fuel mixture and change the amount of fuel to compensate, as a result you push your foot further down to get more power.
- For safety I strongly recommend installing a vacuum actuated switch, these switches are attached in a vacuum line on the engine once a vacuum is drawn across the switch it turns the unit on. So if the engine isn't running the HHO doesn't flow.

DO NOT buy a off the shelf unit I've tested dozens from over the globe half are garbage and the other half do a little, but none managed to perform as advertised for me.
In the end I built an option that does work quite effectively, however I built the PWM and the cell from scratch, I also used a aftermarket ECU and injection controller with a module that I also made to read the engine input/outputs going to and from the sensors and PWM for amp control.
I also substituted the power consumption issue with flexiable solar panels mounted to the roof and bonnet of the car.

As much as I'd like to "prove it" with the years of R&D documentation, plans, schematics, photos, videos etc. etc. I can't.
As I said earlier I work for petroleum companies and was paid very well to keep my mouth shut about specifics plus if I didn't I be in breach of confidentiality agreements.

When the statute of limitations runs out I'll be the first one to tell what I know.

- If your vehicle is EFI then it will use lambda (O2) sensors, most newer cars have a Lambda sensor on the intake and in the exhaust. you will need to be able to change the signal these sensors send to the ECU other wise you will definitely use more fuel as the sensors read a low O2 level in the intake air fuel mixture and change the amount of fuel to compensate, as a result you push your foot further down to get more power

What vehicle uses Lambda sensors in the intake?
Why would they? ..... I'm nervous.

How does it measure a "low O2 level in the intake air fuel mixture"?

Originally Posted by Catmatt

Ahemm - isn't that Methane and not odourless Hydrogen

If only methane, but me thinks there are contaminant compounds produced by those pesky microbes from the high sulphur content of the said diet and various additives.

If you're interested in the flywheel buses, have a look in wikipedia under Gyrobus.

And to compare, I have done flywheel calculations in the past, but I'm too lazy tonight, so I found an online calculator (Flywheel Energy Calculator). A ring wheel is much more efficient, as the mass is concentrated at the edge of the ring, think of a bicycle wheel.

Anyway, a 100kg ring flywheel, with a diameter of 1m, spinning at 50000rpm has the same energy content of ~10L diesel (if I'm using the calc right). How would you feel about having one of those in your boot, spinning away?

Discussions regarding various efficiencies of diesel/electric generators etc can ensue or not, I'm watching the tennis.

Hi SeriesLR,

"In a nut shell HHO generators do work when done right"

Compared to? Tennis ball under accelerator pedal?
If really good, anybody got a waterboard?

Back to baked beans gas plumbing - I'm sure I read somewhere that an aftermarket kit had been developed for Toyota's Pre-arse!

Couldv'e saved yourself a lot of typing.

Originally Posted by seriesLR

Hey Greg,
In a nut shell HHO generators do work when done right

As much as I'd like to "prove it" with the years of R&D documentation, plans, schematics, photos, videos etc. etc. I can't.

that'll do.

super summation.

Yes Hydrogen fumigation on an engine works and makes it run more effeciently in the same way that LPG fumigation does (more or less)

No having the engine that your running from the fumigation provide the power to split water into HHO and then plumbing that into the engine wont work. Basic rules of the Game of entropy. Heres the rules

1. you can never win, the very best you can hope for is to break even.
2. You must play.

3. You can enjoy eating both the baked beans and the resulting emissions.