Printable View
Nearly 34A for cooling, compared to how much for the A/C fan?
I like a nice project and this is a good exercise in engineering. It's not what I'd do as I have never had a cooling system problem, apart from the time that the coolant left! Oil cooler rubber hose leak, a very easy fix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohica
It has been a considered upgrade as to the system requirements and draw on the alternator. The 35amp is not the operational running but the max draw when the EF, EWP and ACCF are in use of course. I might add I have a kit for the alternator ordered.
EWP is operational all the time of course but, it does not draw full amps but rather pulsing and then coming 'on' at temp and increasing to max. The system is cycling at all times and a guestimate from the % of time the pulse is on the display against the pump ON is roughly 60% of the time. The pump on does not mean its pulling full amps, it builds up to max with temp increases.
The EF has been a revelation and again I note that this is anecdotal as I do not have the logs of the EF usage, but I would estimate that at most it would on is around 30% and would be with at max amp of the EWP.
It is here that I note the system has worked without incident and coped a couple of times with an hour in peak hour traffic at high 30C's and now the first foray onto the tracks at around 30C. Is it proven, at this time no, but, it has performed extremely well and I am getting confident.
I have not had others with a thermal fluid sensor note their experiences of the temps they experience so the reported temps which may appear to Nanocom users to be high, am now comfortable with them showing the EWPC and even forays to over 100C do not worry me in the slightest.
I contend they are the normal operational COOLANT temps of the system, that is, the coolant itself plays around the mid 90C's against the mid 80C's the standard coolant outlet sensor records. This of course now backed by many hours of having the two displays operational together and comparing the readings.
The time that the Relay for the fan was loose, over 30k's of driving on freeway and suburban streets, the system still kept the temps at a more than reasonable temp below boiling and as I have noted previously, the ACCF did not come on and temps max at 108C with no fan at all. I have read UK forums where they remove their VF completely and run the system fan less, not really what I recommend in Aus mind you.
The incorporation of the AC Fan into the system is not full time. It will be wired in with the current system to a switch to allow me to choose to include its operation in the current system. If for some reason the system deems the fan is required, the system can turn the fan on as it does now. The 16" fan at 2120cfm and the option of high power 14" 1500cfm all which is available at idle onwards along with 150lpm coolant flow.
It is there for optimum cooling only, IF, the EF was not capable of maintaining temps, and to date it has done it admirably, it would not have been required. To me it makes sense to approach it this way, it will not be used in the cool down post engine turn off as the current system does this easily. IF it is required I will be happy to draw 35amps to protect the engine!!!
I've had the external temp at 45C, stationary, AC full blast, the coolant temp via the Nanocom peaked at 96C. No need to change anything, IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohica
I wanted the availability of cool down with the engine turned off and the system gives me this, no spiking of temps or heat soak especially with the turbo.
With the D2a as a daily driver, I am going to install the 150lpm EWP but will use the ACCF as the cool down fan. Was going to leave it standard but have the straight through exhaust, egr delete and new CHRA to fit along with a tune. No lift, rocksliders or tyres etc. This is purely for a daily driver / tourer only and if the D2 goes belly up, will install the heavy duty parts from this D2.
I have found that the temp differential between the Nanocom and EWPC start to merge at lower speeds or stationary and once the EF kicks in (which is around 95C on EWPC) they separate out again with the Nanocom always lower than the EWPC.
Is your turbo water cooled? heat soak is irrelevant in this instance.
I’ve had my TD5 out in 40°+ weather for hours in low range. Never a single problem.
I’m enjoying your willingness to try things, I’m struggling to understand or completely missing what you’re trying to actually improve - as so far nothing has actually improved.
There’s:
-more hoses
-more joins
-more wiring
-more relays
-more connections
- more current draw - leading to loads on alternator pulling more hp from the engine than previously (so not such a power saver)
- more electrics - you are now reliant on 2 electric fans and alternator that is higher loaded.
You’ve gained:
- slightly less temperature variance
- less fixed fan noise
You’ve lost:
- reliability
- simplicity
- continuously maintained flow in the engine - you mention the pump pulses - so in certain points the engine is getting hot, pulse, hot, pulse….
DC were one of the groups I turned to over 2 decades ago to deal with high power vehicle cooling - and we’re useless.
In the end went to another company (specialised in Race cars) and the solution….. the billet manufactured version of the TD5 cooling system - bypass thermostat etc..
This was in 400+ HP of road going V8 that couldn’t be kept cool by anything DC suggested.
Final solution - clutch fan, aux electric fan and a bypass thermostat system.
stationary .. even in traffic .. not a stress on a small diesel motor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohica
They cool down quickly when just idling away.
I reckon will be different story charging up a steep hill, in that ambient temp with a bit of a load on(or towing).
Should have put even heavier front springs in when I read it like that LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
As for the wiring, absolutely, it is pretty basic wiring at best -
1. EF and EWP to fuse holders / relay and then along with the Coolant Sensor wired connected to EWPC loom and the 12V connection to run the EWPC
2. I have a separate coolant level sensor as well which is one wire to Coolant level control box and the 12 volt connection to run it - the wired the LED to middle of gauge cluster
3. Switch and relay joined to Standard D2 ACCF
The Coolant light sits up between the gauges
Attachment 177237
Actually it is less hoses, the short hose from the thermostat to coolant rail is now figuratively on the other side of the front coolant rail (and easily able to be got at) connected to the EWP, there is no hose from the upper radiator hose to the thermostat so this join and then the coolant rail to thermostat from the return hose as well so it is TWO (2) less hoses and the removal of one which created a convenient place to install the Temp Sensor.
The number of joins against the standard system MINUS ONE (1), and it has the TEMP Sensor included, so one join to fit the TEMP Sensor is a pretty reasonable get. Gee some people install these hoses...
Attachment 177238
Cut out of the return hose from the thermostat became the location of the upper sensor by the way. I have included the coolant level sensor in as well which is just TWO joins. There for I have included the two sensors for ONE extra joint against the standard system and these are well located and easily monitored for integrity, against joins low down and unmonitored by all by the most fastidious around the thermostat.
Attachment 177239
Attachment 177240
What about ease to prime, bleed and test integrity of the system, ability to change parameters of the system - thermostat temp, full cooling available at any time irrespective of revs. Also if the waterpump was required to be changed, minutes, minutes to change and available for around $150. Yeah that's a mute point... but I can take it off and clean it out in minutes!
Can not pull more power than any one else off the engine with the alternator irrespective of what load I put on the electrical system, this a mechanical imperative not electrical. The removal of the constant draw of the VF and the waterpump on the system will never be overtaken by any additional alternator requirement, would strongly suggest that I am ahead at all times as to mechanical loss, probably a lot further than I imagined.
As for noise, not an issue one way or the other, the D2a fan noise does not worry me at all and neither did the VF in driving the D2
Now the more interesting point you raise as to simplicity and reliability. NO.
The mechanical waterpump, VF coupling and thermostat are not necessarily more or less reliable than EWP, EF and EWPC. Any system has a failure rate, some more than others eh three amigos, for any of these I would be happy to get 150,000k's out of them which will probably see the end of my ownership tenure of the D2 at 400,000+k's.
The system has already provided a level of protection with the loss of the fan belt with the ACE pump failure, did the system lose all cooling protection and loss of coolant flow and most likely an overheating situation with head gasket failure and this is an emphatic, NO. Can actually run the D2 until the batteries loses power and shuts itself down with full protection until then.
So it is a perspective of risk management and one that each has to make their judgements on. Any system that is not monitored and maintained is liable to more likelihood of failure, sure we can both agree on that.
I made 2 simple modifications on my D2a V8 that made a massive differance in the running temps even when towing a 2t boat in 40C+ temps.
First I replaced the thermostat for an 82C unit then I modified the plastic grill to allow a better airflow.
A cheap and simple solution to my overheating problem that works verry well[thumbsupbig]
Attachment 177243Attachment 177244Attachment 177245Attachment 177246
Have looked at the grille many times and the large slats across... Like the centre slat with the badge, the way it looks so proud, and thought about cutting away the other two but this is obviously the way to go, the opening is demonstrably clear. Did you cut it with the hacksaw??Quote:
Originally Posted by trout1105
I used an angle grinder with a cutting blade on it and secured the mesh with a generous aplication of sikaflex.Quote:
Originally Posted by RRT
I have had several bird impacts on the mesh and it hasnt budged one iota[thumbsupbig]
Attachment 177248
Here I have the sikaflex applied to the top of the grill and I later did the same to the bottom of it, The cable ties are only there to hold the mash in place while the sikaflex cures completely.
