Thread: TD5 Kick Down/steering question

330,000 clicks. thanks for your advice gents I'll get him to check all this. really appreciate it!

right so here's what's happened to the best of my knowledge, read back if you want to hear what happened before,

he did all the aforementioned work after the loss of oil pressure (see attached invoice), Screen Shot 2017-07-27 at 10.36.20 pm.jpg

told me he'd test driven it and all was well, it was a week before I had the money to pick it up,

conveniently he wasn't there when I collected, I'd paid him over the phone the previous night, to get back into town it's a twisty up hill rd, about 10 mins drive, cold morning was driving fine if a bit sluggish, I was taking it slow,

get up the last hill and it cuts out again, M+S lights flashing, cranks but won't start, I wait about 20 mins, pump the pedal 5 times and it starts, now it's downhill about 2 mins into town, but it's making a knocking noise, so I pull over again, car cuts out before I turn it off.

car can be started but runs very rough,

I had to get to work so I leave the car and ask him to come get it.

he tells me he's tried a new fuel pump which changes nothing, says maybe it's the injector loom full of oil, fits a new one, no result there,

then the worn bores story. I ask him to send me all details in an email. he sends me nothing but a quote for a 2nd hand engine fitted.

here's the email I sent him based on discorevy's advice;

got a few questions, the 2nd hand motor how many k’s and what condition etc? what kind of warranty does it come with?
and do you swap the whole thing or just short engine?
how many of the new parts in the current motor can we re-use?

are you 100% it’s the bores? you mentioned if it could be fixed it can’t be honed and would need re-sleeving? why is that?

have you/can you check it’s not the cam timing with your locking pins and inspect injector rocker shaft?
could the initial problem have been caused by the cam sprocket being pulled past normal adjustment, retarding timing and compression?

and his reply (note no answer to the questions regarding timing):


CAM
MOTOR S/H – 212,356km
We have removed head inspected bores (still have honing marks)
Service head and replaced with new gasket and head bolts
Warranty – 6 months
Only short motor replaced using all your existing add ons
Use front cover and new bearing from existing motor
Because we performed a wet test it conclusively confirms worn bores
Over size pistons not normally available therefore you need to resleeve back to standard and use existing pistons. (over size pistons available from o/seas but cost exceeds value of resleeving)


so that's where I'm at. his total quote for supply and fitting a 2nd hand motor is $3795

times like this I wish I still lived in melbourne instead of hicksville, not many choices around here...thanks again for all your help guys.

Originally Posted by Cambeaner

right so here's what's happened to the best of my knowledge, read back if you want to hear what happened before,

he did all the aforementioned work after the loss of oil pressure (see attached invoice), Screen Shot 2017-07-27 at 10.36.20 pm.jpg

told me he'd test driven it and all was well, it was a week before I had the money to pick it up,

conveniently he wasn't there when I collected, I'd paid him over the phone the previous night, to get back into town it's a twisty up hill rd, about 10 mins drive, cold morning was driving fine if a bit sluggish, I was taking it slow,

get up the last hill and it cuts out again, M+S lights flashing, cranks but won't start, I wait about 20 mins, pump the pedal 5 times and it starts, now it's downhill about 2 mins into town, but it's making a knocking noise, so I pull over again, car cuts out before I turn it off.

car can be started but runs very rough,

I had to get to work so I leave the car and ask him to come get it.

he tells me he's tried a new fuel pump which changes nothing, says maybe it's the injector loom full of oil, fits a new one, no result there,

then the worn bores story. I ask him to send me all details in an email. he sends me nothing but a quote for a 2nd hand engine fitted.

here's the email I sent him based on discorevy's advice;

got a few questions, the 2nd hand motor how many k’s and what condition etc? what kind of warranty does it come with?
and do you swap the whole thing or just short engine?
how many of the new parts in the current motor can we re-use?

are you 100% it’s the bores? you mentioned if it could be fixed it can’t be honed and would need re-sleeving? why is that?

have you/can you check it’s not the cam timing with your locking pins and inspect injector rocker shaft?
could the initial problem have been caused by the cam sprocket being pulled past normal adjustment, retarding timing and compression?

and his reply (note no answer to the questions regarding timing):


CAM
MOTOR S/H – 212,356km
We have removed head inspected bores (still have honing marks)
Service head and replaced with new gasket and head bolts
Warranty – 6 months
Only short motor replaced using all your existing add ons
Use front cover and new bearing from existing motor
Because we performed a wet test it conclusively confirms worn bores
Over size pistons not normally available therefore you need to resleeve back to standard and use existing pistons. (over size pistons available from o/seas but cost exceeds value of resleeving)


so that's where I'm at. his total quote for supply and fitting a 2nd hand motor is $3795

times like this I wish I still lived in melbourne instead of hicksville, not many choices around here...thanks again for all your help guys.

Is he giving you nothing at all back of the nearly $2K that you have already spent on his advice?

Does he not accept any responsibility for telling you that his repair would work and now it doesn't?

Is there anybody else in the town or nearby that could give you a second opinion?

Warranty six months: on what, exactly?

What was the warranty on work already carried out?

Somehow I never felt good about that low quote in the first place.

Hell, for $6K I would probably have sold you my TD5 D2 and you could put your trans in it and had a bunch of spares. I'm not making light of your situation. I think it's well past time to call the NSW equivalent of consumer affairs and seek advice.

Whatever you choose, I wish you luck.

thanks John,

nope, only offered a rather matter of fact 'sorry' these things happen kind of deal,

I reckon he stuffed up and rather than fixing it he's tried to come up with something pre-existing to blame it on so he's not responsible.

either way I reckon I'll be taking it elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Cambeaner

thanks John,

nope, only offered a rather matter of fact 'sorry' these things happen kind of deal,

No, they don't if he's a pro, or if they do a pro fixes them.

Originally Posted by Cambeaner

I reckon he stuffed up and rather than fixing it he's tried to come up with something pre-existing to blame it on so he's not responsible.

either way I reckon I'll be taking it elsewhere.

Sad to say it, but I agree 100%.

I truly hope that the outcome is a car you enjoy, and you hang around here as a happy LR owner, but who could blame you if you moved on?

If it makes you feel any better ( it won't ), my son just spent $2K replacing the clutch in his HiLux.

Originally Posted by Cambeaner

....

I reckon he stuffed up and rather than fixing it he's tried to come up with something pre-existing to blame it on so he's not responsible ...

Unfortunately an all too often occurrence in life today .. honesty is a rare thing nowadays.

Originally Posted by Cambeaner

....
either way I reckon I'll be taking it elsewhere.

Best option from here on.
Make sure whoever you take it too, get them to assess the work done by the previous guy, and get a report on it. Even if it costs a little bit of money.
This will arm you with the info you'll need to get compensated if you take it to your state consumer advocacy group, or arbitration mob.

He's obviously stuffed something, and like lyonsy said, to suddenly lose some compression and not run at all is 'bovine excreta'.

It's probably not timing related as you wouldn't have driven the 10mins out of his workshop and up the hill. More likely he hasn't properly bolted something up and may have worked loose as you were driving .. or something like that.

Silly question tho, have you checked the fuel. both fuel level and quality of.
M&S lights up? I think(from memory) this is(or can be) a low battery, or dud battery issue.
I don't have a TD5, but I've seen this on brothers TD5, so my experience is remote and second hand .. ie. just trying to give you other .. left field' options that may develop after the fact.
You did say car was sitting for a week or more, was a cold day.

Would be interesting to get a nanocom on it and see what codes it throws up?

copy paste of what was said previously


honestly i think he is tacking you for a ride.

but it would still have to be cheaper to slip the pistons out throw a set of rings on them (as the old ones would of lost tension by now) a new set of big ends and a dunnie brush hone and freshen the head up then fitting a 2nd hand engine, it would also give you a fresher engine then the 2nd hand engine, or fit new std size pistons and rings to your current engine.

btw once a engine is broken in if you can see the hone marks then it was honed with too coarse of a hone and will be causing blow by and loss of compression,
i have pulled diesels down with 1.5million on the engine that dident blow smoke or breath hard it was just preventative maintenance and the bore's look like chrome where the rings run a sister engine they ran to 3 million km's before they did the same because they got nervious on the rod bolts not cause it used oil or breathed hard

but at the end of the day low compression on a diesel wont make it stall or have low power to the point it stalls if its not breathing hard and blowing blue smoke,
just to give you an idea at work we have an old case backhoe this thing i can turn over at the crank by hand thats how low the compression is it needs aerostart to start it but once fired it runs fine and doesent even blow blue smoke.

it will be something electrical that has failed and or fails when it gets hot or the cam timing is up the creak etc or he hasent check clearance's on the new bearings and they are grabbing but that is more unlikly as it would be pretty sick by now.

done some quick looking
in parts to do a re ring on your bottom end is only around 200-250
hell all4x4 spares has 3 piston and rings on ebay $110 each if they could supply 2 more for 550 you would have a new set of pistons and rings prob 50-100 in bearings for the big ends, reuse you rods have a look at the small end bearings if they look ok and not overly worn just leave it.
so for around 650 in parts on top of what you have all ready done you would have a near enough to fresh reco engine as you will get, (prob better then most reco engine's unless its a full remanufactured)
just looked at previous bill you all ready have fresh big ends so maybe slip a set of mains in it instead
so even if he puts a 30% mark up on it your still only looking at 900 max in parts to rebuild your current bottom end.
and you should save on labour over a engine swap as he is not dismantling your engine then building up anther (which btw is getting on close to half the life most people expect from their td5 of around 500'000km)

sometimes as a mechanic you have a **** run he may be on one of those runs but there is only 4 things that will stop a electronic diesel engine while running
1 no fuel (injector loom, ecu, fuel pump, cracked head pumping sump full of diesel)
2 no timing (crank angle sensor which is a know part that can fail and he has distriburded it when he did the front cover and balancer)
3 it has seized up (when it stopped did it turn over on the starter)
4 compression i have watched an old mechanic who thought a perkins engine was glazzed pour dry soap powder down the inlet of a engine diesel and all it did was make it blow more oil smoke (ended up the ring lands and rings of the piston's had been smashed, broken, and fubar enough that the linners had 2-3mm gouge's out of them due to people starting it with aerostart and even with the engine in that condition it would still run and would only need aerostart for the first start after it got some heat in it it would start by its self), so if it was running right up to the point it died and was not hard to start or blew a ton of blue/white smoke (and you shouldent have a cat to try and hide it) then you have more then enough compression for the engine to run no its not new but it worked.

so i call b/s on compression being the fault

the m&s lights flickering is generally the xyz switch having a hissi fit reset it and should be fine (my d2a has been doing it on and off for 4 years untill i brought a new xyz switch to fit then it stoped having hissi fits )

since it seems you are going to be keeping this thing for a while BUY A NANOCOM it makes fault finding so much easier and he should have one when i brought my d2a a deal had just fell through on a d2 i was looking at so i had a nanocom when i picked the car up lol

hell if you have basic tools we could run you though how to do a dunny brush car yard engine rebuild at home you would need a torque wrench and the timing pins are 11 pounds from turners



oh welcome to the world of landrover where everyone works on their own car because its the only way stuff seems to get fixed properly
as they say landrover making a grade mechanics out of everyday motorist's since 1948

[QUOTE=Cambeaner;2707264]
it's downhill about 2 mins into town, but it's making a knocking noise, so I pull over again, car cuts out before I turn it off.

Knocking noise could be big ends, or after running with no oil pressure the first time, seized small end ( gudgeons) or piston slap , as mentioned if there is another mechanic in your area ( preferably td5 experienced), take it there , at the very least this person should never have replaced big ends/ timing chain etc after an engine has run with no oil, that option should never have been made available to you. FYI a wet test is usually made if a dry test is unsatisfactory, the oil is usually squirted towards the bore letting the oil make a temporary seal in place of worn rings / bores and raising compression readings if worn and not raising the comp if valves are the problem , you need to get the vehicle away from that workshop until investigated further ,especially if there was a knocking noise, by the way if he tested all 5 cyl the rocker cover will already be off and injectors removed,,otherwise he tested cyl 1-4 through the glow plug holes ( only 4 glow plugs)