Starting issue

**getLuke** · 30th May 2022, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by AK83

Also: I'd say pulling fuse box apart may not yield any significant discovery.
Fuse box is basically a sturdy metal 'circuit board' type device. I don't know the metal used in this circuit board, but it's very sturdy.. quite rust proof.
Mine has been sitting in the weather for a few years, where many less sturdy metals have rusted away, but the fuse box innards are perfectly fine.
I doubt very much you have an issue between the relay socket and the pin going to the WP wire plug.

Attachment 178998

Thanks mate, that photo helps me understand what the internals are like. And good to hear they are fairly sturdy.. I won't bother trying to open it up.. unless the new one solves it and I'll rip it apart.

Originally Posted by AK83

I re read your recent posts, and it seems like the relay is not clicking?(maybe).

If you had a touch on it when it was supposed to click, you would definitely feel it click on and off.

Swapping relays around makes a difference.

Yeah sometimes it clicks (when working) and then sometimes I am sure it does not click (when not working).

I just think its the other relays when I am resting my finger and the vibration carries.

I have switched relays, got new relays and the problem persists.

Originally Posted by AK83

You said that it always happens when after standing(eg. overnight). So next time before you try starting, pop the fuse box cover and just wiggle R9 first before you try to start(or prime the pump). Don't remove it, or swap it, just wriggle it a bit by hand and hopefully it will start or prime up immediately.

Will do!

Originally Posted by AK83

I don't know exactly what this means in terms of tracing the issue, but maybe this is in the fusebox itself.

Be mindful too tho, you said you cleaned up the underside of the fuse box where a previous owner and yourself have added stuff. We don't know exactly what stuff you have added down under there, we can only assume that this has been done 'professionally' in that it hasn't disturbed the way the fuse box and relay system works.

So the previous owner has wired in spotlights direct from the battery with its own fuse and relay and works off the headlight/high-beam. He has also wired in a switch so if you only want stock high-beam and not spotlights, you are able to do so. I am thinking to pretty much remove the complete install (spotties, wires, fuse, relay etc) as its pretty ugly and I never use the spotlights to be fair.

I have installed a winch which is powered directly from the cranking battery.

I have also installed a head temperature sensor which gets its feed direct from the cigar lighter (spliced). Although I have now disconnected this to ensure this was not part of the fault.

I have also installed a UHF radio, which used its power from a 'piggyback' fuse from the interior fusebox. This has also been disconnected. My original thought was, as this was mounted in the map slot above the sun visor, with minor water ingress the light stopped working and then I thought the system had actually caused a short. But this has been removed entirely.

Mate, thank you so much for your advice and help. I certainly have learnt heaps - especially that there is a uniform way to label wire colours haha!

**singlecell** · 31st May 2022, 07:24 AM

On the times you have to wait, does the car seem like its going to start and then fail? Then you have to wait a little before it then starts?

**getLuke** · 31st May 2022, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by singlecell

On the times you have to wait, does the car seem like its going to start and then fail? Then you have to wait a little before it then starts?

It cranks fine, the issue is no power feed to the fuel pump.

It never starts firing then doesn't then does, like an old carby engine. It simply just turns over.

**getLuke** · 31st May 2022, 02:58 PM

So this morning it has been the AUX circuit that is now failing. The vehicle starts absolutely fine.

It takes around 5 minutes for the AUX circuit to come on.

My inexperienced brains telling me perhaps it is a connection issue where it warms up and expands, or something along those lines?

The fact that these issues are happening and it is either one of the other, leads me to think its the fusebox.

Hopefully next update is when I have the new one installed.

**AK83** · 1st June 2022, 07:39 AM

sounds very weird, and I'm still thinking not the fuse box(yet).

Are the relays all new now? I think you said you took the new ones back after replacing them and still the same issue.

With the Aux circuit delay ie. is the delay in one or all of the key positions?
That is, if you just hit the first click, is there still the delay in the aux circuits? or is it only after starting?
Have the wipers/cigar socket power something/radio/etc, go to first click, and does this thing come on? or is it only after you start it that you notice the delay.

Quick check. have only aux on, have engine fuse box lid off, locate aux relay, give it a tappety tap tap .. or a wiggle, or something .. and maybe it will activate(or not) ... again will narrow stuff down a bit.

Also in the meantime, while you wait for the fusebox to come, be sure the fusible links, with the torx screws clamping them down, are tight. Unlikely they've come loose, but you never know.
You need a T40 for the large ones and T25 for the smaller ones.

**singlecell** · 1st June 2022, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by getLuke

It cranks fine, the issue is no power feed to the fuel pump.

It never starts firing then doesn't then does, like an old carby engine. It simply just turns over.

I have been having the same issue for years. Happens about 4 - 5 times a year to me.
Cranks but wont start, then just wait a minute and it starts perfectly fine. My theory is that power drops out to one of the computers and its just resetting. I think this as when the issue occurs my aftermarket head unit starts up as if it has had the constant 12v removed. And the way the car turns over without any fuel is the same as when I used my nanocom to adjust one of the computers (cant remember which one) and it takes like 40-60 seconds before the car will start correctly. I could be totally wrong, but thats the feeling I get.

**Four Loko** · 1st June 2022, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by singlecell

I have been having the same issue for years. Happens about 4 - 5 times a year to me.
Cranks but wont start, then just wait a minute and it starts perfectly fine. My theory is that power drops out to one of the computers and its just resetting. I think this as when the issue occurs my aftermarket head unit starts up as if it has had the constant 12v removed. And the way the car turns over without any fuel is the same as when I used my nanocom to adjust one of the computers (cant remember which one) and it takes like 40-60 seconds before the car will start correctly. I could be totally wrong, but thats the feeling I get.

I too have had this randomly. Just cranks and cranks does nothing no other symptoms. I thought maybe some thing happened with the alarm / immobilizer and I would just sit in the car turn it off lock it with the fob wait a few mins unlock and it would fire as soon as the key is turned.

Recently I did replace my wiring harness with a brand new one and also my crank sensor at the same time, yet to have it happen since, but its not been that long and as you all say it has been infrequent when it does it. If I get it again I will post back.

**getLuke** · 1st June 2022, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by AK83

Are the relays all new now? I think you said you took the new ones back after replacing them and still the same issue.

Not all of them, the fuel pump, main relay and AUX are. When the fusebox arrives it has all the relays on it so will transfer them all first, to see if it could have been any of them.

Originally Posted by AK83

With the Aux circuit delay ie. is the delay in one or all of the key positions?
That is, if you just hit the first click, is there still the delay in the aux circuits? or is it only after starting?

All key positions. Ignition I, II and crank (engine running) - there is a delay.

Originally Posted by AK83

Have the wipers/cigar socket power something/radio/etc, go to first click, and does this thing come on? or is it only after you start it that you notice the delay.

Quick check. have only aux on, have engine fuse box lid off, locate aux relay, give it a tappety tap tap .. or a wiggle, or something .. and maybe it will activate(or not) ... again will narrow stuff down a bit.

Nothing comes on the aux circuit at any ignition point.

I'll give it a tap (AUX RELAY) tomorrow morning (unless I check tonight and its not working).

Originally Posted by AK83

Also in the meantime, while you wait for the fusebox to come, be sure the fusible links, with the torx screws clamping them down, are tight. Unlikely they've come loose, but you never know.
You need a T40 for the large ones and T25 for the smaller ones.

I removed all FL's (well 1, 2, 3 and 4) when trying to seperate the fuse box and they are now tight and certainly getting contact. Only FL1 (is that the alternator safe guard?) had torx, the other 3 have phillips.

IMG_6216.jpg

**getLuke** · 1st June 2022, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by singlecell

I have been having the same issue for years. Happens about 4 - 5 times a year to me.
Cranks but wont start, then just wait a minute and it starts perfectly fine. My theory is that power drops out to one of the computers and its just resetting. I think this as when the issue occurs my aftermarket head unit starts up as if it has had the constant 12v removed. And the way the car turns over without any fuel is the same as when I used my nanocom to adjust one of the computers (cant remember which one) and it takes like 40-60 seconds before the car will start correctly. I could be totally wrong, but thats the feeling I get.

Thanks mate, but the fact that mine occurs every single day, sometimes twice (if I need the car at lunch), I feel the problems could be different as your issue is extremely less frequent.

**getLuke** · 1st June 2022, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by AK83

Quick check. have only aux on, have engine fuse box lid off, locate aux relay, give it a tappety tap tap .. or a wiggle, or something .. and maybe it will activate(or not) ... again will narrow stuff down a bit.

By the power of the gods, it finally worked! That is, the starting issue. The fuel pump was not priming.

I turned it on and could hear fuel pump and AUX circuit was fine.
Turned it off, waited, plugged in Nanocom and turned car on. No fuel pump sound and the HDC amber light was illuminated. AUX circuit was fine.
Popped the bonnet, car still at IGN II, wiggled R9 and the fuel pump started. I could hear it. Also the HDC amber light extinguished. AUX circuit, fine.
Turned it off, removed R9, turned it back on and no fuel pump sound, the HDC amber light was illuminated. AUX circuit was fine.
Off, R9 in and after a couple more goes at it, I managed to recreate the above process.

So clearly an issue with relay(s) or fusebox connections..?

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