16 p to 10 p engine swap

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Originally Posted by johnp38

Why won't the 15p/16p cam go in a 10p head ? Is there a change in the journal sizes, cam carriers or what, please explain, all knowledge helps. There are only 2 part numbers for cams, eu2 donks and eu3 donks, and I thought the injector rocker lobes were different to suit the stroke/higher pressure greentops.

I think I'm wrong re - cams not physically fitting. did some googling to check. For some reason I thought they'd changed the bearing spacing

Also there are fuel maps available for the later NNN ecu to run 10p motors provided by land rover, because if you need a replacement ecu from LR for your earlier Td5 that was MSB you get an NNN with 10p mapping.

Yes, but not for the late model NNN (500250 as an example). I have no idea what ECU he has

from what I can read at the start of the thread the the only change is the donk only not trans, so the airbox and everything else suits the NNN ecu as per factory, and ecu suits existing trans.

Yes, but it will still need remapping to suit the 10p. If its a manual and he has a late model NNN that does not support 10p maps - he'll have a ****fight sourcing a replacement ecu. If its an auto, no dramas - those ecu's are everywhere

The ecu doesn't have a clue what motor it is running it just follows the mapping as per its input signals from the sensors (MAP, MAF, Airbox ,water and fuel temp, crank signal etc etc)

It will still do its 5,10,15, 25 degree advance even though it is 10p in there instead of 15p.

So I say again hook it up and run it as is before panicking or overthinking.

I wouldn't want to run a 10p with 16p mapping. maybe ok for a start up test / check, I'd not drive it to dead dingo creek though

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Anyway, I hope I'm wrong about the cams. If I can just change the injector rockers, ecu and swap out the 10p injectors to green tops on my old girl, I'd be very happy

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Originally Posted by Discosux

AFAIK a late model NNN cant be re-mapped to suit a 10p

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Not true ... plenty of 10p Discovery's/Defenders running around with NNN ECUs and remaps to suit, including mine. Easy way to get Cruise Control too ... not that I've installed the switch/wiring yet.

JohnP38 has covered it pretty well, the only things I'll add is that you are probably better running an EU2 tune with the EU2 hardware.

There is no such thing as a 15p 16p or for that matter an 18p ECU.

And there is an orphan NNN available, the NNN500250, there are not many base maps available to suit it.

A NNN000130 can run any auto EU2 motor.
A NNN500030 can run any auto EU2 motor.

A NNN000120 can run any manual EU2 motor.

A NNN500020 can run any manual EU2 motor.

I'm happy to stand corrected, but I believe these to be the facts.

I also have here an EU2 head that has the late style cam carrier on it, and the only issue I've had is ordering the wrong seal.

The cam physically fits fine, but a number of hardware parts were upgraded strength wise to run the EU3 injectors.

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Originally Posted by towe0609

Not true ... plenty of 10p Discovery's/Defenders running around with NNN ECUs and remaps to suit, including mine. Easy way to get Cruise Control too ... not that I've installed the switch/wiring yet.

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That's not what I said.

I was referring to late model nnn ecu's as opposed to early model nnn ecu's
I've got a NNN500250 sitting on the bench. If anyone can get a working eu2 map in it - please tell me how.

I've been corrected by shack - that it was only the nnn250 that had this problem though.

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Originally Posted by Discosux

I've got a NNN500250 sitting on the bench. If anyone can get a working eu2 map in it - please tell me how.

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Send me the map on it and I'll take a look....

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Originally Posted by shack

Send me the map on it and I'll take a look....

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But I don't think I'll need to now - looks like I can swap over the rocker shaft from a 16p, fit green tops and i'll be fine to run a eu3 tune on the 10P head, just need to wire the iat and TPS to EU3 spec. I've got all the bits.

Honestly thought I had to do a head swap to achieve this

Apologies, I misunderstood the late model reference ... and don't have any expertise here ... just some limited experience putting NNN ECUs into my 10p defender

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Originally Posted by Discosux

That's not what I said.

I was referring to late model nnn ecu's as opposed to early model nnn ecu's
I've got a NNN500250 sitting on the bench. If anyone can get a working eu2 map in it - please tell me how.

I've been corrected by shack - that it was only the nnn250 that had this problem though.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by towe0609

Apologies, I misunderstood the late model reference ... and don't have any expertise here ... just some limited experience putting NNN ECUs into my 10p defender

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No dramas at all mate [smilebigeye], I've spewed out so much wrong stuff in this thread - you had to pull me up on ( the only? ) an almost factual post snippet.
I had to at least try to recover some cred, no matter how small.

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Originally Posted by johnp38

moving green injectors plus 16p injector rocker shaft plus 16p cam across to replacement 10p motor will work optimally with the NNN ecu already in vehicle.

the blacktops and greentops have different cams and injector rocker arms.

but to avoid playing with head bolts and splitting the cam carrier just leave the 10p intact and see how it runs in service before any panic or assumptions.

keep it simple.

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I partially agree with this approach especially with the "keep it simple" part cos mine ran with 2 green tops for about a year for me and who knows how much for the PO. IMO simply fitting the green tops into the 10P in the same order to avoid coding and carefully adjust the clearances would be perfect cos the ECU which managed those injectors is already on the vehicle. The black tops will not run well with the Eu3 fuel map that's sure

i'd like to see some clear evidence about the differencies between 10P and 15/16/...P cams and rockers other than the part numbers while the same parts seem to be suitable for all:
1. LGC000310 Camshaft
2. MUI000040 Rocker arm assembly

Perhaps a little off topic, but can a 'cheap' MSB ecu (say from a wrecker) be adapted so that it can be programmable/able to be remapped?
I have a '99 D2 Td5 manual that I'd love to have a mild tune put in, but finding the correct NNN ecu is prohibitively difficult!