Thread: Zf8sp swap on td5

Originally Posted by admiralranga

I get the impression if you fit an m/n57 with the 8hp the extra bollocks of the engine swap isn't significantly worse than trying to drag a td5 into the 21st century

Not sure why I would do that as I have a n57 with a 8HP in my BMW X5, so why have 2 of the the same combo lol

Originally Posted by AK83

While thats a fair comment, it misses the key point differences between a D2 and a D3/D4.

Tyre section size.
That I know, you can't fit 85 aspect tyres easily onto a D3/D4 for arduous off road work, as you could on a D2.
IIRC some D3s allow 17" wheels, but as the model progressed, they made it harder to fit smaller wheels to allow higher aspect tyres.
D4 min wheel size was 19"(someone will correct me here), how to fit proper tyres for it?

Also to my knowledge, TD5 cranks don't really break that often.

My 2012 D4 has 18" wheels, and lists 17s on the tyre placard.

The D4 on 265/65R18 all terrain is just as good, or better off road than my 130 on 255/85R16 mud terrains, the main difference is I really dont want to get all the small dents and scuffs in the D4 that the 130 has, the D4 also has less than half the payload the 130 has, but the D4 is SUCH a good all round vehicle.

If push came to shove I could put 37" tyres on the 130, not realy possible on a D4, yes I know someone somewhere has probably done it.

As for the crank, mines a 2.7 and I keep telling myself their mutch better the the 3 litre ones

Tony

Originally Posted by AK83

While thats a fair comment, it misses the key point differences between a D2 and a D3/D4.

Tyre section size.
That I know, you can't fit 85 aspect tyres easily onto a D3/D4 for arduous off road work, as you could on a D2.
IIRC some D3s allow 17" wheels, but as the model progressed, they made it harder to fit smaller wheels to allow higher aspect tyres.
D4 min wheel size was 19"(someone will correct me here), how to fit proper tyres for it?

Also to my knowledge, TD5 cranks don't really break that often.

15k on a car barely worth 10k , plenty of tyre sizes in 18" and you can fit 33" without too much work and 35" with some cutting.
Not that you need anything that big.

Originally Posted by loanrangie

.....
Not that you need anything that big.

I think you've missed the point I was trying to make.

I get that, I personally don't either. I'm happy with 245/75 on the D2 .. so no I don't need anything that big.
My needs are more about 'overlanding' type of travelling, not ultimate off-roading, massive articulation kind of stuff.

But as I recall Kaaaiju has his D2 setup with massive tyres, big articulation, etc... ie. different needs to what you or I may need.
Hence recommending a D4 to someone that (sort of) needs a D2s more extreme setup capability doesn't help.

Also, part of the adventure is in doing something a bit different to our cars isn't it ... it's not just about the cost in the end.

More to the point for me, if someone recommended to me to fit a BMW engine into anything, I'd laugh so hard I'd probably end with with another heart attack!
Worst engines of any car maker(IMO).
Never had any of my folks had so many troubles with BMW engines. But to counter that comment, all have been petrol, never diesels. Once that experience has been set tho, they're are a manufacturer I avoid.

Originally Posted by AK83

I think you've missed the point I was trying to make.

I get that, I personally don't either. I'm happy with 245/75 on the D2 .. so no I don't need anything that big.
My needs are more about 'overlanding' type of travelling, not ultimate off-roading, massive articulation kind of stuff.

But as I recall Kaaaiju has his D2 setup with massive tyres, big articulation, etc... ie. different needs to what you or I may need.
Hence recommending a D4 to someone that (sort of) needs a D2s more extreme setup capability doesn't help.

Also, part of the adventure is in doing something a bit different to our cars isn't it ... it's not just about the cost in the end.

More to the point for me, if someone recommended to me to fit a BMW engine into anything, I'd laugh so hard I'd probably end with with another heart attack!
Worst engines of any car maker(IMO).
Never had any of my folks had so many troubles with BMW engines. But to counter that comment, all have been petrol, never diesels. Once that experience has been set tho, they're are a manufacturer I avoid.

I love the way my d2s are on 35s and they way they are setup. Td5s are at the point of producing more power and torque than most new diesels which is very impressive.

Originally Posted by AK83

I think you've missed the point I was trying to make.

I get that, I personally don't either. I'm happy with 245/75 on the D2 .. so no I don't need anything that big.
My needs are more about 'overlanding' type of travelling, not ultimate off-roading, massive articulation kind of stuff.

But as I recall Kaaaiju has his D2 setup with massive tyres, big articulation, etc... ie. different needs to what you or I may need.
Hence recommending a D4 to someone that (sort of) needs a D2s more extreme setup capability doesn't help.

Also, part of the adventure is in doing something a bit different to our cars isn't it ... it's not just about the cost in the end.

More to the point for me, if someone recommended to me to fit a BMW engine into anything, I'd laugh so hard I'd probably end with with another heart attack!
Worst engines of any car maker(IMO).
Never had any of my folks had so many troubles with BMW engines. But to counter that comment, all have been petrol, never diesels. Once that experience has been set tho, they're are a manufacturer I avoid.

I get that so that makes the conversion almost pointless, useless having 8 gears if you are lucky to use 4, the M57 is a super tough reliable engine that has potential for high power and torque.
It makes some sense for a tourer but then $$$ versus gain isnt great, i'm all for doing it just because but there has to be a reasonable gain to make the effort and cost worthwhile.
I could slip a ZF8 into my D3 easily since it would bolt right in and only requires the electrical side to make it work and would probably cost less than 5k - thats reasonable.

From my experience, I think a tuned TD5 would greatly benefit from running at about 1750RPM at highway speeds. That would be unladen(basically, minimal cargo in the car). For long haul transport would(could) give up to a couple hundred extra klms range on std tank size.
I don't know the gearing that the 8 has vs the 6 or 4 at the upper gears, but back in the day when I swapped my 4sp in my RRC to a 5 spd, that result was only 500RPM reduction at 100k/h but netted me about 100-150 extra klm per tank.

My D2 has been mapped(std turbo).

My D2a is all std.

Huge difference in mapped vs std TD5 in terms of torque and throttle response at this 1750-2K RPM range, so a tuned TD5 with high gearing shouldn't be a problem in terms of driveability at highway speeds.

Of course you could lower the diff ratios too, and instead of taking advantage at highway speeds, you'd conversely get super low low range gearing. Not really a problem in a D1/D2, but always nicer to have the option of those lower low gears I'd think.

Back in the day when I had my D1(tdi) and bro had his TD5, I'd always considered the idea of a HP6 in the Tdi. HP6s are more plentiful, and I'd guess cheaper(I actually considered one at $500 years back) .. trans controller for more adaptability would have been nice to have too ... etc. But then we sorted the TD5's problems, and I got more interested in the TD5 instead. ie. I used to be scared of the 'electronics', but once the TD5 experience had been developed, no longer the case.

So much so, I'm looking at D3s for the future

Originally Posted by AK83

More to the point for me, if someone recommended to me to fit a BMW engine into anything, I'd laugh so hard I'd probably end with with another heart attack!
Worst engines of any car maker(IMO).
Never had any of my folks had so many troubles with BMW engines. But to counter that comment, all have been petrol, never diesels. Once that experience has been set tho, they're are a manufacturer I avoid.

The M57 is not as you know BMW motors, these motors are something different. I would argue that this is one of the best diesel engines to have ever been. I would say the M57 to Europe is what the LS is to the US and Australia.

Originally Posted by admiralranga

I get the impression if you fit an m/n57 with the 8hp the extra bollocks of the engine swap isn't significantly worse than trying to drag a td5 into the 21st century

And a bog standard M57 can make the same power as a full worksburger build on the Td5.