Thread: Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

So, I had a nice sleep over it...

The shape, I don't mind that it looks like a defender a bit. or G wagon, or, or, or... I like that shape anyways being a kid in the eighties where everything was squared

points I have noted so far:

• It's really hard to read but I think the tyre size on that clay model is 265/70R17 so no 16" wheels. I guess that is ok but I would have preferred them. Again just a guess but it has to do with the brakes no doubt. Then again, maybe it was just for show
• the driveline parts look more like nissans pootrol in terms of size and hopefully strength, arguably the strongest on any 4bee (from factory, back in the solid front axle days)
• same goes for the various rods and what not
• the dual barn doors are differently sized and the total opening wider than the deefers. More total loading opening, less door to open for just a toolbag or smth.
• the doors extend to the roof, like a van. For people who want to modify this vehicle as an overland truck (I would be one of them) a pop-top roof might be difficult so I see it as a mixed blessing / curse.
• the design of the front makes the car look slightly bug eyed. Since this is not the final, final design I guess that can still be fixed.
• the rear lights... I have not made my mind up yet. Suffice it to say that I am not immediately enamoured
• the optional protection rails on the side, covering the door handles, you could buy for the deefer are standard here it seems
• bmw 6 in line engines (both petrol and diesel). 6 in line is the smoothest engine design you can get, except for a V12 maybe. Good choice
• bmw engines. Have not been on top of their game since the late 90's. bad choice, but I guess that is a problem with nearly all manufacturers because "environment" so I am not sure what they should have gone with.
• 8 speed gear box, power when and where you need it, more shifting. I guess the old "low range second gear" trope will become "low range 4th gear"
• complexity will be higher due to the last few points above.

They suggest a retail price of around 30K gbp which I think would be reasonable.

According to this bloke they are already talking to NGO's directly to check what the market wants so if they succeed and ngo's start driving these rigs, that would be quite something and would also help in adoption of parts and what not abroad.

YouTube

He has some good points about the electronics (like limiting vehicle speeds and gears and so on) that will not apply to most of us but will be of interest to fleet owners and thus is good for us in the long run. He also makes some good suggestions (as well as some far out unrealistic ones) but I think that most of those suggestions are a bit too late to be taken into account seeing as the car is pretty far along in the design process. However, here is hoping...

I'll be patiently waiting to see what comes out of ineos the coming years. It seems that my world travel plans are hampered by this bloody corona crap anyway so I have time to watch this unfold

Cheers,
-P

Originally Posted by laney

I read on car advise that Ineos a car maker I have never heard of are making a car that looks very much like the old Defender with a 3 liter BMW engine I would of thought that Land Rover would have put some sort of protection on the Defender shape this new car at first glance you would swear was a Defender so do car makers have rights over certain iconic deigns as Harley Davision do on the sound of there motors.

If it makes it into production they'll almost certainly be sued by JLR for how closely it resembles the Defender.

Originally Posted by Arapiles

If it makes it into production they'll almost certainly be sued by JLR for how closely it resembles the Defender.

Mmm could be interesting since LR based their design on a Jeep. I doubt they would bother. Rather if it succeeds they'll buy them out☺

I was about to say the tailgate is too small but I think it is a two piece. Maybe I should keep watching the vid and all will be revealed?

Having seen the double cab side on in the graphic, I noticed that the rear side door is full size. Some crewcabs over here have smaller rear side doors and the bench seat has very little leg room for passengers. It is more or less a token gesture. Given the full sized door on the GRENADIER you would assume (hope) that the leg room inside for the rear passengers is the same as the station wagon versions.
Even though it has two opening doors on the back given wider access than the old Defender, don't forget that when you are in the back there will be wheel arch intrusion.
I am not a fan of multifunction single lights as on the rear of the GRENADIER. This is because I have noticed one function blocks you seeing another clearly. This is from personal experience either following cars with multifunction rear lights or meeting them at junctions.
Regarding the choice of the BMW engine. I was not overly enamoured when I saw this. There has been some trouble over here with some BMW power plants with owners having a real fight on their hands with dealers/BMW who deny their is a problem. I cannot remember the exact problem but it was fairly common but meeting with official denials. You know the story, or variants of it.
I could not see the diffs or prop shafts in any photos I have seen. It is early days yet but I wish JLR had put the same energy and enthusiasm into keeping the Defender going.
JLR/Gerry seem to have a mind set that a full on commercial/utility variant demeans the marque. Thus they have exited a market segment that could guarantee sales in these difficult times.

Originally Posted by bnicho

Land Rover already had a shot at Ineos in court over the shape and Land Rover lost.

Kind of .... it was a trade mark application, which JLR lost after Ineos challenged it, and JLR then announced that they would appeal to the UK High Court.

The decision is on the internet:

https://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-challenge-d...lts/o58919.pdf

It's pretty technical stuff and not related at all to whether the Grenadier is a copy of the Defender. Because that wasn't the issue that was argued about.

So, I think that it's still an issue as to whether the Grenadier itself would be so similar to the Defender that JLR could block it.

Similar looks, similar engine (Merc)

A friend of mine asked me about the Grenadier a couple of days ago. He has been looking for something since his 300Tdi got more or less driven into the ground by one of his employees. He had to replace one of his Landrovers anyway by something that meets mining company's safety standards. Presumably the Grenadier would? He ended up getting a dual cab of some kind, I can't remember which one. Part of his problem was finding a manual transmission which did not take too much effort to operate at a constant speed on rough ground. He finds his TD5 ideal for that.