Thread: Airbus crashes in Pakistan " we have lost engines"

Originally Posted by Fourgearsticks

This is very real, still a big factor in Asia along with corruption and nepotism.

I used to train pilot cadets from Korean Air, Malaysia Airlines, and Merpati (Garuda).
We spent a lot of our time teaching these guys how to level the cockpit gradient back towards how it is in the western world. Generally we had good success.
Unfortunately, when they went back home it was trained out of them...

Was not the crash of the 2 jumbos in the Canary Islands due to the captain taking off and ignoring advise of a junior pilot not to move

Originally Posted by 3toes

Was not the crash of the 2 jumbos in the Canary Islands due to the captain taking off and ignoring advise of a junior pilot not to move

From memory that may have been a factor, but no accident is "due to" a single factor.

My memory says it was a chain of events including misunderstanding of slightly ambiguous ATC directions, fog, abnormally heavy traffic for the airport requiring taxiways being used for parking, with a number of places where the chain of events could have been broken. The legal responsibility ended up with the KLM crew having initiated a takeoff under the mistaken impression that they had been cleared for takeoff, with both them and ATC using non-standard phraseology, and then several parties talking over the top of each other meaning nobody heard the protest from the PanAm pilot about the clearance.

The captain was the head of check and training, and was known as being an overbearing autocrat. I would hate to have been checked by him. There was a crew flight and duty time limit rapidly approaching, and the captain wanted to beat that.
He was totally fixated on departing, to the exclusion of all that was going on around him, including listening to the FO and flight engineer.

Sure, there are a plethora of other factors, but all it took was for him to listen to his crew, and that would have broken the accident chain.