Not being adversarial here bud. I survived an AP mine explosion in a Defender, so I am as much the LR enthusiast as any other, but this is not a footy team we're talking about here, it is a product, and a damned expensive one too.Originally Posted by Disco Muppet
Not at all, eliminating human error is a key reason why robots are used in mass production. As such, the first part of my statement stands. If you're taking offence at the second part well then
It's also important to look at context, no?
James was talking about his Hilux, then asked why hand made vehicles would have more issues.
There are squillions of hiluxes out there, they've been making them for yonks and Toyota have gotten very good at making run-for-half-a-million-kms, boring, expensive white goods, which is what the Hilux is.
So my context about mass production and human error (or the removal of) was talking about Toyotas.
I'm not defending Land Rover for build quality issues, or making statements about any other manufacturers as I don't know anything about them. I can't explain the difference in two hand made vehicles, perhaps it's a German/British thing, perhaps all the people at Solihull feel that if it doesn't require constant tinkering it's somehow detracting from the owners true Land Rover experience. I simply don't know.
Quite frankly I don't really care, I'm happy with my LR, including, I might add, the service and feedback I receive from my local Land Rover service centres, dealership and private.
Believe me, I bleed green and gold, Land Rovers have been in my family since they existed, but I'm not so one eyed as that I can't accept the very obvious and disappointing problems they suffer from.
Read my posts, the product is great, especially in most other countries. Since part of any good product is the after sales service, well then the product just has much less lustre here.
Your point concerning human error vs machines is taken, but it is misplaced. No machine invented replaces a SKILLED human operator. Semi-skilled? ye well, perhaps there are a few machines better to support your argument here.
Apart from the highly engineered componentry, PROPERLY hand produced products have always outperformed machine assembled products. Tata vs Hilux? here I would support your argument, Hilux is better.
Pommie labourers?
Who knows?
No comment.
Wizard
Just to put forward a different perspective. A mate has a P38 and camper trailer which he drives from Victoria to Perth each year for his annual holiday.
His last trip earlier this year resulted in a problem with the car. He drove in to the Perth LR dealer unannounced and explained the problem. They immediately began work on the car and two hours later it is good to go. He asked how much and was told 'have a happy holiday - no charge'.
Master
Is my car actually likely to be produced by Pommies? Where are defenders sourced for the australian market? I know they are made in a few different factories around the world. Which one is ours?
Swaggie
Doesn't matter what country. Assembly line workers are low paid, unskilled, and usually not white & English speaking.
When I was in the industry and conversations got around to build quality there was usually someone who would say 'Australians can't build good cars.' My normal response was to say that Australians don't build our cars. They were then being built by Turks, Lebanese, Egyptians, Greeks, Yemenis, Yugoslavs, Vietnamese.
URSUSMAJOR
Master
Ok let me rephrase the question..... are they made in England? Or India? Or China?
TopicToaster
Ours are made at Solihull U.K.
Over the years, Land Rovers have been made in many Countries, in many shapes & forms, some from CKD kits etc. Before the "current" range of 90s were released here a few years ago, I believe the previously imported ones came from South Africa.
Cheers, Pickles.
Master
thanks Pickles. For some reason, in spite of the genetic heritage of the people on the line I still feel someone comforted that something is still made in the country in which it was designed.
TopicToaster
Same here! (Not only the same Country, but the same premises!)
Cheers, Pickles.
Swaggie
Few country towns other than major centres have an LR dealer. When I was at Leyland Truck and Bus we had dealers in places as small as Dirranbandi and Thargomindah and Morven. Many don't have a big three dealer anymore, or only one of the three. In fact some quite prosperous small country centres no longer have a car dealer at all. So good luck getting service for complex modern cars in small centres like Winton or even Longreach. The makers did a slash and burn job to save themselves in hard times. Keith Horner started this at Ford in the seventies. It costs money to service a dealership so dealers that sold few cars, say 20 a year or less got the shove and if surviving are sub-dealers or spotters for a major dealer elsewhere.
URSUSMAJOR
Great stuff!!!
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