Thread: Welcome home Jessica Watson

Originally Posted by akelly

Sorry, I've gotten confused again. I thought that the post above was suggesting that young people (teenagers?) would not get any inspiration from JW other than the desire to become famous. With that in mind, and your request for evidence (I assumed you meant evidence that JW would inspire teens to achieve something), I found some peer reviewed articles that deal with the issue of inspiration from role models. What I should have done is placed myself into a state of deep meditation, concentrated on the thought "what evidence would a narrow-minded, middle-class, white male need to challenge his deeply entrenched fear of things he doesn't understand" - then I would have simply provided a link to some Andrew Bolt columns that confirm your world view.

I will, from now on, assume that your posts mean something other than the collective meaning of the words they contain.

Cheers,

Adam

PS - Oh yeah - you should also stop reading once you find a study that confirms your hypothesis, that's the way the best research is always done.
How much time did you expect me to devote to what I had hoped would continue to be a light hearted debate about what is after all a matter of little consequence without anyone making any assumptions about others involved in the debate? Help me out here. (I am still hoping that you want to be helpful.) Which of the articles in your list confirms your view?

You are quite correct when you say," I assumed you meant evidence that JW would inspire teens to achieve something."
I am still waiting for you to produce that.
You say, "I found some peer reviewed articles that deal with the issue of inspiration from role models."

However I have already pointed out that you found some peer reviewed articles that deal with the issue of inspiration from role models where those role models bore some similarity to the person they were intended to inspire.

I argued that for that reason those articles were not much help in determining whether Jessica Watson is likely to inspire the average teenager.

I quoted a part of one of your articles that suggested it was unlikely that she would.

I believe that an appropriate response would have been to direct me to a part of one of the articles that supported your view or contradicted mine. Or perhaps you might have conceded that I had a valid point.

I look forward to your response which I trust will provide relevant information and will deal with the issues as I hope there is no further need for you to make wild assumptions about my skin colour, my gender, my social class or my level of fear or understanding.

Fair enough, no more assumptions.

Care to explain to me why your statement - "I am not surprised that role models "in your own social group" are important" - is not evidence that you agree that JW's achievement will inspire teenagers to more than just "wanting to be famous"?

Care to explain why your comment - "He says, "an exemplar only has an effect on the evaluation of the possible self if it is considered relevant to self evaluation." and that "relevance is determined in large part by perceptions of similarity."

I take that to mean that a role model's effective is increased if there is a strong similarity to the subject." - is not an admission that you agree that a teenager will be inspired by a fellow teenager?

I have to confess - you have totally lost me. What the hell is your point? I give you 20 articles that show that a role model from your own social group is effective in providing inspiration to achieve your own goals - and you agree that its true - but that is somehow irrelevant or not contradictory of your stateed opinion that the best we can hope for is that some teenagers will look at JW and think "I want to be famous".

If you want a light-hearted debate then be light-hearted - don't use passive-aggressive, sarcasitc language to challenge me to provide evidence:

"I thought there was a risk that the highlighted bits below would provoke someone to describe me as an incurable, deluded optimist. Perhaps that would only be the interpretation of a glass half full person who tends to see the good in others.

Is there some clear evidence of the beneficial effects of achievement such as this that you can share with me? "

It looks as if there might be quite a simple explanation for the difficulty each of us has had understanding the other's point of view.

Originally Posted by akelly

Fair enough, no more assumptions.

Care to explain to me why your statement - "I am not surprised that role models "in your own social group" are important" - is not evidence that you agree that JW's achievement will inspire teenagers to more than just "wanting to be famous"?
Maybe this particular point is the one that has caused all of our problems. It seems that you are assuming that Jessica is an exemplar with enough similarities to the average teenager for her to be an effective role model. On the other hand I am assuming that Jessica, her upbringing, her circumstances and her achievement are so far removed from the experience of the average teenager that she is too different an exemplar to be an effective role model. If I am right about how each of us has interpreted this point, that would explain the difficulties each of us has had understanding what the other was on about.

Care to explain why your comment - "He says, "an exemplar only has an effect on the evaluation of the possible self if it is considered relevant to self evaluation." and that "relevance is determined in large part by perceptions of similarity."

I take that to mean that a role model's effective is increased if there is a strong similarity to the subject." - is not an admission that you agree that a teenager will be inspired by a fellow teenager?

My comment above probably covers this too. You believe (I think) that the fact that someone is a similar age to Jessica is enough for her to be an effective role model. I believe that the differences between Jessica and the average teenager are great enough that she will not (according to Blanton), be an effective role model.

I have to confess - you have totally lost me. What the hell is your point? I give you 20 articles that show that a role model from your own social group is effective in providing inspiration to achieve your own goals - and you agree that its true - but that is somehow irrelevant or not contradictory of your stateed opinion that the best we can hope for is that some teenagers will look at JW and think "I want to be famous".

If I were to accept your premise that a similarity in age is sufficient to make someone an effective role model then I would have to concede that your articles were relevant. It is because I see enormous differences between Jessica and the average teenager that I have said I believed they are not helpful.

If you want a light-hearted debate then be light-hearted - don't use passive-aggressive, sarcasitc language to challenge me to provide evidence:

"I thought there was a risk that the highlighted bits below would provoke someone to describe me as an incurable, deluded optimist. Perhaps that would only be the interpretation of a glass half full person who tends to see the good in others.

Is there some clear evidence of the beneficial effects of achievement such as this that you can share with me? "

Righty-O.

I think we should just agree to disagree before one of us gets an excuse to invoke Godwin's Law or ends up in this situation....


Attachment 25631

That cartoon is brilliant! Where did you find that? I assume it is one of a series of cartoons. I think I have seen one before drawn in the same style and with the same sense of humour.