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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saitch
Modern roads as we know them:
Roads Were Not Built For Cars - American and British cyclists of the 1890s saved roads for ALL users
19th century cyclists paved the way for modern motorists' roads | Carlton Reid | Environment | theguardian.com
Roads Weren
Few links for you to read.
We are all human and all have family, so I think our overriding nature when on/in either vehicle is to respect the other, this would be the majority or 'normal' behaviour.
As with all statistics, there will be those (behaviours) outside the norm, you won't change them, we won't change them. Then there's education about the risks and behaviours, life is a continual lesson, none of us know everything, but I bet we all know someone who doesn't learn, so this won't solve the issue, but may help, although there's been on and off campaigns about every aspect of road safety, and we still have every problem.
Common sense ... Well that's not that common, so moving on. Thinking about the work place where vehicles and people interact, I've thought mining would be a good start, preventing death and injury being the overriding objective of Occupational Health & Safety - Risk Analysis would never let bikes mix with trucks and cars. The simple analysis steps - what is the risk (contact between body and vehicle/road), what is the likelihood (highly likely as there are huge vision and awareness issues and no communication between operators), and what is the outcome (potential serious injury or fatality). Therefore the Risk is too great, it increases with driver/operator inability/inattention and speed.
More telling, a work place would have screened operators for age, fitness, lifestyle, experience, then provide ongoing training and SUPERVISION, where the bad elements are continually weeded out, yes the police exist, but this is really limited supervision.
Essentially we work to live, but don't apply the same safety/hazard/risk logic that saves lives and injuries at work to our daily lives, sometimes forgetting that living healthy and staying safe allow us to work to live. Age/maturity and exposure to injury and death also plays a big factor in risk averseness, we're not always 6 ft tall and bullet proof.
Now at this point the hard core would say that there is a 'right' to take the risk as there is a potential health/climate/psychological benefit, and because the law permits it, sure they'd be 100% correct and good luck to them. I sometimes do too, nervously.
But for those that understand physics, risk analysis, safety and potential outcomes, and still want to pedal, there are Safety concepts that can be applied, but they are not often seen as 'cool' and include (but not limited to) :
awareness & alertness (free, acquired more with age and sensibility)
visibility (clothes or vests that stand out like road workers, who by the way can only work near vehicles if speed is reduced to 25kph in SA, 40kph otherwise).
Protective clothing - not Lycra, sorry... Elbow&knee pads, full helmet, leather, body airbag, allsorts of other beyond 2000 stuff...think motorcycle clothing.
Flag at least 1m above head (obviously attached to bike) to aid truck drivers see bikes that are otherwise too low/small in the FOV of truck cabins.
Mirror(s) on bike to assist in situational awareness.
Follow procedures such as indicating intentions.
Etc.
My heartfelt condolences to those who've met with incident or know those who have. I'm not against bikes on roads, I'd like to do more riding myself and wish my kids were safe when riding. I'm against unaware operators of both vehicles, but I accept it won't disappear, that's why I glance at the rear view mirror when I brake, so I can brace for impact when the driver behind is still texting and didn't see traffic slowing.
The attitudes we see here are just that, BUT the hazard exists regardless. The circumstances with our current infrastructure mean that there is a VERY BIG HAZARD created with mixing people and traffic above 25-40kph, risk analysis confirms this, workplaces - Mining and Civil Roadworks - are PROOF of the hazard. It wouldn't be allowed at work, but the law says we can do it in public places - roads. Exceptions where postpersons and police ride bikes, they're technically at work, but not in a work controlled environment.
All anyone can do is the best they can (and we all have off days and experience fatigue), but if you rely on every operator on public roads to be at their best and the the roads to be as safe as a controlled workplace should ideally be, you are ignoring common sense, statistics and science or simply prepared to accept fate.
Chapter 2 ... The infrastructure solution, tbc.
I had a problem only the other morning on the way to the airport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slunnie
Two cyclists were riding side by side
But as I was coming of the dual road on a slip road I was faced with these two side by side doing max 20 and using up half the slip lane as they were using the main lane and non of the side if the road . I was doing 80 and this meant I had to be closer to them than the 1.5m or I would have ended up in the ditch. I pass them and looked in the mirror to see hand gesters and shouting out me.
Is there any reason that prevented you from slowing down until it was safe to pass?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads90
I will admit to being largely ignorant of the legal "rights" of cyclists, but the one thing that I see in all these arguments that crop up on various forums is the indignance with which both sides defend their rights before the rights of others.
I do not have the answers!
I hate being held up by cyclists, eventually getting past them , only to be held up again by another one! I'm as impatient as the next person in this day & age of instant gratification, but does that mean that my right (if it is a right) to travel to my destination, outweighs the right of the cyclist holding me up?
People are selfish, stupid, ignorant & arrogant & idignant (even more so when their faults are pointed out). I include myself.
The only way that anything will change is if we properly segregate road users - caravans,trucks, cyclists, pedestrians, horses, motor cycles, busses, old folk, 'L' drivers, 'P' platers, supercars, 4wd's, tradies utes, Volvo drivers, camry drivers, Audi drivers, asians, middle easten folk, europeans, white Australians, black Australians, Soccer mums..........Blah blah blah - so long as I have my lane & travel un-impeded, I'll be reasonably happy! (if I misssed insulting anyone, I appologise)
I do think that if we can all just chill out a little, try to forgive our fellow man for their errors of judgement, or personality floors & be a little more courteous to EVERYONE, their attitudes to us might also start to change.
It's just an idea!
Disclaimer:
I am guilty of doing stupid & reckless things on the road, intentionally & unintentionally. I am guilty of shouting abuse at other road users (cyclists included).
I wish I was free of fault, but I am not and I try to remember that every time I get frustrated at the action / in-action of others. (I dont always succeed!)
Am I a cyclist aware driver - I try to be!
So, what you are saying/admitting on a public forum is that your driving isn't up to scratch because:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads90
a) you were driving too fast or dangerously for the conditions if you were unable to slow down and pass safely and,
b) you are too selfish to want to share the road with other road users.
It's good to know these things.
I would like to wager that you are one of those driver who believes that they are an excellent drive and that all cyclists are law breakers. Yet, when presented with two cyclists who are doing nothing illegal you decide to act in a manner which endangers their lives to teach them some sort of lesson for a perceived transgression which exists only in your mind.
:D You ever ridden a bicycle on the road? I have a full face helmet, and elbow and knee protection which I wear if I am riding downhill but you couldn't wear them on the road. I think you would collapse from heat exhaustion within about 20 mins, especially if you included leathers!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatsouthernland
What's next, going for a run wrapped in blankets?
Yes I've done a few triathlons and ride a MB. If that's all you picked from my essay then I'm glad you took in the rest :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Psimpson7
The point was meant to be that to avoid all the safety gear, a controlled environment is required, like the TDU. If not controlled, such as road workers do when they expose themselves to traffic, then personal protection is the next best thing.
There's the 'Hierarchy of Hazard Controls', which you probably know, so apart from Eliminating the hazard, you have a few other options, Policy and Procedure being the LEAST effective (which apart from relying on good manners, is all we currently have). I was hoping to provide a rational analysis and remove emotion, but I wasn't implying that Lycra had to be replaced in racing events or controlled areas for the serious contenders to practice.
So the other safety recommendations sit OK with you? Don't sweat it with the full leathers, yep I've worn them too before you ask, not on the pedal bike though.
;)
Cheers
A run wrapped in plastic is common for some elite athletes, so space blanket could be used I suppose :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Psimpson7
You could always wear your Lycra while gardening if you miss it :D or shopping, or driving...
Ideally a breathable exoskeleton with fitted air bags would minimise the risk of serious injury when knocked off, you could wear the spandex under that. I remember seeing an airbag in a motorcycle jacket many years ago on some TV show, so it must be possible for cycling...just trying to help with the practical side of things and not picking on any one for their chosen 'right' to be on the road.
Thankfully I don't own a single piece of Lycra, or for that matter a road bike!
As for your other safety recommendations, I use the fact that I regard myself as a competent cyclist, and only ride a mountain bike on which I can generally get out of the way if I need to, and just take my chances.
The flag and mirrors will have to wait
No worries, eyes in the back of your head will be enough while you're still competent/bullet proof :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Psimpson7
Have a good day mate. :cool: