Cyclist aware drivers... are you one?

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Originally Posted by rick130

Mick, you keep asserting this and yet you've not presented one scrap of evidence to support your argument.

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My observation from my travels in and around Melbourne. Doesn't mean it is not true.

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Originally Posted by rick130

In my running around I'd say the opposite is true, but that's just my observation. ;)

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I don't doubt it. It is your observation.


Oh, and a very good programme I listened to some months ago.
On road cycling - Background Briefing - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

And, who mentioned bike helmets?
The bicycle helmet laws - Background Briefing - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I'm trying to approach everything with an even hand. Fair is fair. It's some elements of the cycling fraternity that think they are special. They may be, in a different way, but as the rules go, and common courtesy and respect, all are the same, or should be.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Using the implied logic:

I own 3 4wdrives, 2 motorbikes and 2 Push bikes.. I can only use one at a time...

How many registrations should I have to pay?

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According to the cycling fraternity, none.
My opinion, all.
The important one, Mr. Plod, just the motorised ones (over a certain cc or power) that you will be using on the roads.

That raises an interesting point. If you only use one at a time, a single registration that is swapped between your vehicles has been discussed on more than one occasion. Something like a "Trade Plate". I like that idea. Perhaps a new thread is needed for greater discussion.

[QUOTE=rick130;2137465]Actually I'd like to hear why you think there is so much intolerance, bike and otherwise.

It's a question that vexes me.

[My conclusions have been draw from a lifetime of experience cycling here in Australia and abroad. I don't have official road injury stats to hand. Only what I've mentioned earlier - in terms of the regular abuse suffered for simply existing on the road on a bike. Of course, the vast majority of people are courteous - but the minority is more prevalent here (I maintain). It upsets me, given my love of this country (apart from sporting teams of course - too much hurt in the past). Its a major aspect of Australia (the driving standards) that I can't fathom. It aint just me saying it either. I have plenty of expat mates.

To me, there is a a greater level of intolerance here, and I draw that same conclusion when I'm driving a car. Courtesy does exist. But its rarer. Nobody uses their hazards to warn others of an incident. Thank you waves are rarer. Mergeing of traffic is more confused. Flashing lights to let somebody through/out is also sparser (nobody knows how to respond to that one - its not customary I recognise). Whereas aggressive responses are more common. Period. How often do you see friendly natured driving versus aggressive?

Is there more impatiance here. Are there higher aggression levels? Is it because cycling popularity is a relatively fresh thing here? Are people homophobic against MAMALs. I can't figure it. So should we just accept it. I think not. Its too important an issue. ]

Should I mention E-bikes!!

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Originally Posted by davidsonsm

Ill go back to a prior point. Its a question of consequence. Car goes viral - can be very bad. Bike goes viral - less so.

I don't think the authorities want to administer it. I don't believe there are any other nations that have bike rego. Why an issue here? What is so unusual about Australia (in relation to bike intolerance). I could answer that one quite simply, but I'll refrain.

It is only NZ and AU that have mandatory helmet laws I believe. Strange one that. Bloody hell we need them with some of the attitudes towards us out there.

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You asked for evidence:D
There is one small but massive difference between us and the u.k in cycling laws.
Here 2 abreast is ALWAYS LEGAL BUT in the u.k it's not legal to ride two abreast on winding or busy roads! Pg66 hwy code
Lane splitting is also illegal in the u.k , and helmets are optional depending upon which council your in. Also if your riding under 18mph or about 30 kph you must use the cycle way if it is there.
Now apply those rules to where people are complaining and see the difference: 80kph off ramp with a plod of bikes doing 15-20 is now no issue as they would be single file. People climbing a mountain rd stuck behind 4 cyclists are no longer stuck. City lanes closed and made into cycle ways with zero bikes and the riders blocking/ slowing traffic, no longer occurs.

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Originally Posted by davidsonsm

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Originally Posted by rick130

Actually I'd like to hear why you think there is so much intolerance, bike and otherwise.

It's a question that vexes me.

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My conclusions have been draw from a lifetime of experience cycling here in Australia and abroad. I don't have official road injury stats to hand. Only what I've mentioned earlier - in terms of the regular abuse suffered for simply existing on the road on a bike. Of course, the vast majority of people are courteous - but the minority is more prevalent here (I maintain). It upsets me, given my love of this country (apart from sporting teams of course - too much hurt in the past). Its a major aspect of Australia (the driving standards) that I can't fathom. It aint just me saying it either. I have plenty of expat mates.

To me, there is a a greater level of intolerance here, and I draw that same conclusion when I'm driving a car. Courtesy does exist. But its rarer. Nobody uses their hazards to warn others of an incident. Thank you waves are rarer. Mergeing of traffic is more confused. Flashing lights to let somebody through/out is also sparser (nobody knows how to respond to that one - its not customary I recognise). Whereas aggressive responses are more common. Period. How often do you see friendly natured driving versus aggressive?

Is there more impatiance here. Are there higher aggression levels? Is it because cycling popularity is a relatively fresh thing here? Are people homophobic against MAMALs. I can't figure it. So should we just accept it. I think not. Its too important an issue.

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You're right, the stats are not good. I've seen them somewhere. Interestingly, since the introduction of bike helmets, the reported injuries to cyclists have skyrocketed. Be careful interpreting those statistics though, they may be totally unrelated to bike helmets.

I've driven in many states and cities. Melbourne are the rudest. The pedestrians are quite rude to so it may have no relationship with cars.
I recently towed a tandem around Sydney. I was terrified of the thought but when I actually started driving there, it was a doddle. If I wanted to change lanes, I'd put on the indicator and a space would magically open for me to merge to. Wouldn't happen here in Melbourne. Everyone would bunch up. "You're not getting in front of me!"
Sydney drivers are so courteous. Courteous is catching. I found myself letting others in.
Adelaide is, well, Adelaide. Most are poor drivers but as the traffic is light (even in peak hour) and a lot of people don't drive up to the speed limit, it works for them. They really need to get this passing on double lines thing sorted though.

For cycles, though, yes, by all reports overseas are quite different to Australia. They have a very different culture. You want to change it here? I wish you success, but, one rouge cyclist will be remembered more than one hundred good cyclists and there are a lot more than one rouge cyclist out there.

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Originally Posted by davidsonsm

Should I mention E-bikes!!

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Out in the eastern burbs of Melbourne, there was a cyclist on an electric bike booked for speeding. He was passing all the traffic. He even passed an unmarked cop car. Silly boy.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Out in the eastern burbs of Melbourne, there was a cyclist on an electric bike booked for speeding. He was passing all the traffic. He even passed an unmarked cop car. Silly boy.

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And he was able to be booked without sporting a rego plate ! :D

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

You're right, the stats are not good. I've seen them somewhere. Interestingly, since the introduction of bike helmets, the reported injuries to cyclists have skyrocketed. Be careful interpreting those statistics though, they may be totally unrelated to bike helmets.

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I've seen it suggested that some of that may be down to the 'aero' design of most road/mtb helmets with the teardrop or pointy backend, just like the two I have !

Again, nothing to back it up, but brought up by the anti-helmet bods.

I'm quite happy to wear a bash hat even though I, like most, spent my youth hooning around without any protection whatsoever.

Hmmm silence on UK laws:D

As to helmets, I didn't have One as a kid as no laws till I was ololder but it saved my brother's life. He fell of at speed crossing a concrete causeway with the top of his helmet going into the rock Wall side of the creeks bank, he suffered 3 crushed vertebrae and 2 broken bones in his hands. He spent 2 months in hospital and the padding in his helmet was crushed from over 20mm to less than 5!