AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Treads
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AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Treads
Cyclists are usually the ones against paying for rego for their bikes. Aside from the "I can only drive 1 vehicle at a time arguments", every trailer I have also has to be registered.
The advantages of cyclist's being registered the policing of the road rules that a visible minority seem to flout. Add to this a "user pays" policy.
If I want to take my boat on its trailer to the river, I have to pay to have my trailer registered, and pay again to have my boat registered. Fair enough, even thou it may not move from my yard for 6 months of the year. If cyclists want bike lanes, then why shouldn't they contribute to them?
As for flouting the road laws, all road users must obey the road laws. This includes not passing on the left, not weaving between lanes, indicating when stopping or turning etc. How many cyclists do you see each day that simply ignore these rules?
Here is a scenario for you: Single lane road in each direction, with no marked bike lane. You are the 2nd or 3rd car in a line of traffic stopped at a red light. You are indending to turn left at the lights, and have your indicator on.
As the lights go green, the traffic moves off, and you commence your left turn. Unbeknown to you, a cyclist has come up on your left, and is sitting in your blind spot. As you turn left, you either cut the cyclist off, or worse, collect them & run over them.
So, who is at fault? The cyclist for passing on the left, and not keeping a proper look out, or the car driver for not paying due attention?
The point of all of this is that if cyclists want respect & equal rights, then they have to earn it, and contribute their fair share.
FYI at least in QLD
Roundabouts (s111, s119)
At roundabouts:
- drivers who want to turn right at two-lane roundabouts are required to enter the roundabout and complete the turn, from the right hand lane
- cyclists are exempt from this requirement and may enter the roundabout and complete a right hand turn from either the left lane or the right lane
- cyclists, if they choose to make a right turn from the left lane, are effectively changing lanes each time they ride past an exit — as such, they must give way to any vehicle that is crossing their path to leave the roundabout.
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso..._image_one.gifKeeping left and overtaking (s129, s131, s151, s141)
Cyclists may turn right from the right lane of two-lane roundabouts.
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso..._image_two.gif
Cyclists may also turn right from the left lane of two-lane roundabouts, but must give way to vehicles that cross their path.
You must:
Riding in a bicycle lane on a road (s247)
- ride as near as is safely possible to the far left side of the road — on a multi-lane road or a road with two or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as you, you can occupy a lane and travel in the right hand lane when necessary (for example, to make a right turn)
- ride to the left of any oncoming vehicle
- not overtake another vehicle on the left if that vehicle is turning left and giving a left change of direction signal
- not ride more than two abreast unless overtaking
- ride within 1.5 m of the other rider if riding two abreast.
You should:
Riding in special purpose lanes (s153, s154, s155, s156)
- always use a bike lane where provided, unless it is impracticable to do so
- never ride in a bike lane on the wrong side of the road (travelling towards oncoming traffic).
You can:
Riding on a separated path (s249)
- ride in bicycle, tram, bus and transit lanes.
On a separated path:
Riding across a road on a crossing (s248)
- you can only ride on the side that is designated for cyclists.
You must:
Riding on a footpath or shared path (s250)
- never ride your bike across a pedestrian crossing, children's crossing or marked foot crossing (crossing with lights) unless there is also a bike light at the crossing.
- dismount from your bike and walk across.
You must:
Riding to the left of oncoming bicycle riders on a path (s251)
- keep left and give way to pedestrians on footpaths and shared-use paths.
You must:
Riding on the footpath (s288)
- always ride your bike to the left of other riders coming towards you on a bikepath, footpath, separated path or shared path.
In Queensland, cyclists of any age are allowed to:
Obeying no bicycle signs and markings (s252)
- ride on a footpath unless prohibited by a 'NO BICYCLES' sign — you must give way to pedestrians and ride in a manner that does not inconvenience or endanger other footpath users.
You cannot:
Avoid being a traffic hazard (s253)
- ride on a road or footpath where bicycle signs or road markings specifically ban bikes.
You must:
Bicycles being towed (s254)
- avoid becoming a hazard by riding into the path of a driver or pedestrian — this rule applies to all road users.
You must not:
Riding too close to the rear of a motor vehicle (s255)
- hold on to another moving vehicle while riding a bike.
You must:
Riding with a person in a bicycle trailer (s257)
- maintain a distance of at least 2 m between you and the rear of a motor vehicle when following the motor vehicle for over 200 m.
You may tow a child in a bicycle trailer if:
Stopping for bicycle crossing lights (s260, s261, s262)
- you are 16 years or older
- the child in or on the bicycle trailer is under 10 years old
- the bicycle trailer can safely carry the child
- the child in or on the bicycle trailer is wearing an approved bicycle helmet that is securely fitted and fastened.
At bicycle crossing lights:
Signalling (s46, s48)
- if the light is red, you must stop before reaching the light.
- You must only cross at bicycle crossing lights when the light is green.
- If bicycle crossing lights at an intersection change from green to yellow or red while you are in the intersection, you must cross the intersection by the safest most direct route.
Optional hook turn by a bicycle rider (s35)
- Hand signals must be given when turning right.
You are able to turn right at an intersection on your bicycle using a hook turn (unless prohibited by a 'NO HOOK TURN BY BICYCLES' sign).
To do this:
Riding on or across a continuous white edge line (riding on the road shoulder) (s150)
- Approach and enter the intersection on the far left side of the road you are leaving.
- Move forward until you are as near the far side of the road you are entering. Keep as near as possible to the far left side of the intersection. Keep clear of any marked foot crossings. Keep clear of any driver turning left from the intersection.
- If there are traffic lights at the intersection, wait until you are facing a green light before moving forward.
- If there are no traffic lights on the intersection, give way to approaching drivers on the road you have just left, as required, then move forward.
You:
Insecure or overhanging load (s292)
- are allowed to cross a continuous white-edge line in order to ride along the road shoulder
- must give way to vehicles on the roadway when moving back onto the road across the continuous white edge line.
You must:
Bicycles
- secure any loads to your bike in a way that does not cause the bike to be unstable
- make sure the load does not stick out from the bicycle in a way that is likely to injure a person, obstruct the path of other drivers or pedestrians, or damage a vehicle or anything else
- avoid hanging things off the handlebars.
Can I overtake to the left?
- Can I overtake to the left?
- Can I ride across a crossing?
- Can I ride on a road or footpath?
- What are the rules about bicycle trailers?
- What are the rules about bicycle storage areas?
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso...2/overtake.jpgBicycles can overtake to the left of a vehicle unless:
A cyclist must give way to a vehicle that is signalling to turn left and driving in front of the cyclist.
- the vehicle is signalling to turn left
- it is unsafe to do so.
Section 141(2) of the Queensland Road Rules applies.
I have yet to ride on dedicated bike paths, although I know people who do.
As I mentioned in my previous post, 60% (it is actually more than that now) of men and women in Australia are either overweight or obese, so imposing a tax on a means (cycling) that may prevent a person from having a heart attack is not a particularly clever thing to do. People need to be encouraged to exercise, not the opposite. Cycling can be great exercise for improving your overall health, so how would imposing a tax such as some form of registration going to encourage people to take it up?
Would parents be happy to pay registration fees for their children's bikes? Would they still buy bikes for their children?
Common sense plays a part in any traffic scenario, unfortunately it is becoming less and less common, so accidents will happen time and time again. Unfortunately, the cyclist is often the innocent party and will always come off second best.
As I say, before any motorist chooses to criticise a cyclist, hop on a bike and go for a ride yourself. See and feel the hatred that is dished out towards you. If you are lucky you will arrive home in one piece, see if your attitude changes.
Ron.
I love these kinds of discussions - it brings out so much ignorance and rage! :)
When a driver see a cyclist run a red light they instantly assume all cyclists are red-light-running idiots. Similarly, when a cyclist is run off the road by someone in a 4WD they instantly assume that all 4WD drivers are inconsiderate idiots.
Seeing minority behaviour and then tarring everone with the same brush is just reductive.
Earn what right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil135
Cyclsist have exactly the same rights as other road users under law
and most Adult cyclists pay their share, it's called taxation in it's many and varied forms.
A bike doesn't burn fossil fuels in use, it doesn't increase road wear and tear, it contributes positively by reducing the strain on the healthcare system (unless the rider is hit by a car)
Here's a thought.
Maybe we should have compulsory registration of all pedestrians, that'd be a fair 'user pays' system too, after all, not everyone uses a footpath and crosses a road.
And a toll on every foot bridge that crosses a major road, maybe a toll on each and every pedestrian crossing too.
Bugger it, why stop there, why not make all pedestrians and cyclists have a GPS embedded in the body and charge them per km of road and footpath used ?
It's such a shame all of this anger and hostility towards cyclists, you'd think 4Wders of all people would be a little more understanding and tolerant, not tarring everyone with the same brush.
As I said above, switch 'cyclist' for '4WDer' and we could be listening to the 'arguments' of the Scrubyites of the cities...... :(
The whole "cyclists should pay rego" thing always makes me laugh. Designing a system of rego for bikes would raise some interesting issues - someone above mentioned the millions of kids bikes for a start. Given the sheer number of bikes in use these days, the system would probably cost more to set up and run than it would raise in revenue. And cyclists would want to see something for the cash. Plus all the motorised whiners would have less to complain about, making their lives even more pitiable.
The other thing is that car/trailer/caravan/motorbike/truck/whatever-else rego doesn't generally pay for the roads. In most States it goes straight to the consolidated fund and is mixed with revenue from all other sources. It is then spent in whatever way the government of the day sees fit. So your rego is paying for things like hospitals (as used by cyclists), schools (for the children of cyclists) and wages (for cyclists who are public servants).
I ride 22 kms of paths, backstreets and the odd main road each way to work most days. I could cut that to 10 kms by just taking roads, but given the kind of self righteous, rednecked rage expressed above I prefer to take the long way. It's not that I think motorists have any more right to use the road than cyclists, it's just that so many motorists can't control their urges and become the school bully they always dreamed of being. I guess being able to throw your first punch with a few tonnes of metal helps you feel like less of a loser. Do you kick the dog on your way out the door too?
Obviously this kind of post isn't going to help people get along any better, but in this case there's no point. The hatred some people feel for cyclists is like racism - born of sheer bloody minded ignorance and virtually incurable. It's amazing how often people refer to the colour of cyclists' skin. I believe the word used is "lycra".
Since when has paying rego given anyone the right to break road rules? Giving respect to pedestrians and cyclists is part of the rules. I see plenty of eejits in registered vehicles break road rules every day. I would go mad if I tried to report them all. This applies while I am driving or cycling.
I would happily pay bike rego if I was then suddenly given respect by the dunderheads who whine about all cyclists being ****s now. Can't see it happening though.
Not disagreeing or disputing, but the two abreast issue taking up a whole lane and being ok is fatally flawed in single lane roads. You can say whatever you like, but at the end of the day a car legally doing the speed limit, comes across a cyclist or two taking up the whole lane with traffic on his right at 100kmph goes where, especially over arise or on a bend. I know I have had it occur multiple time and have had to think quick as there was no way of being able to stop in time and have gone close. I know in all honesty if there was to be a choice : 1) Car / Truck oncoming or along side 2) Trees or building on side of rode 3) Cyclist it would be 3) sorry but risk of injury to occupants of the car comes first.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverP6B
The lane rule should be void completely if there is a viable bike lane and as in my previous post it should be used.
Then there is also another law and tell me if one overrides the other but slow traffic is also illegal, you can be booked for driving less than 30kmph under the posted speed limit without a valid reason eg turning, hazardous conditions.
Yes better facilities should exist but they do not and at the end of the day roads were built for vehicles not bicycles.
A bit of courtesy on both parts goes a long way.
I do agree that coutesy needs to be both ways. I guess at the end of the day it is a bit hard for a cyclist to be courteous to a driver who through their actions, whether intentional or not, could have almost killed them.
There was a time when roads or more importantly road reserves where built as a public place. People would walk there, children would play there and vehicles would drive there, but being aware of other users. I understand that was a long time ago, but maybe that was the right way to think. My kids can not even ride on the local streets around where I live for fear of being run down, but how many of us played on the streets growing up??
As far as driving at 100km/h over a crest and seeing bicycles in the lane and nearly having an accident. There are road design rules that governments and councils apply to. These rules mean that a road is designed to a suitable standard with visibility and stopping site distance in mind. Stopping site distance is calculated from an eye height of 1.15m to an object sitting on the road ahead.
There should be no reason why a vehicle can not stop in time and manouver where required around bicycle riders, especially as they are generally riding at atleast 20km/hr. Since most people on here would be driving a 4wd, then your site lines are better than what roads are designed for as your eye height is significantly higher.
If a driver can not manouver or stop for a cyclist ahead, how can they stop for a fallen tree, traffic accident, cow on the road??? Do you beep and abuse a fallen tree for being in your path??? Or abuse someone in a traffic accident for being there blocking your path???