Thread: First Aid Kit

I would only pack it if someone in my family / party was prescribed it for a condition of theirs.

Packing it just in case some stranger may need it one day I wouldnt recommend. Fair enough if its their own epipen thats been prescribed to them then by all means help them out.

Most epipens will never be used before their expirary date and I definitely wouldnt want to risk giving somebody an out of date pen

Originally Posted by mike_beecham

WOW.
This is at a whole new level now!!!! My only addition would be an Epipen if we had a kid with severe allergy. But one must be trained in their use or YES a self injection is very easy to occur! COuld be embarassing and not great for the patient!

I accept your points Craig - l am looking at this from a business/school-based point of view - pretty much nothing in our kits that we are not qualified to use. We are trained in Wilderness First Aid/First Responder - so life support in remote area. (Remote area = more than 2 hours from any substantive help). Pretty much focuses us on keeping things going/comfortable until helicopters arrive or we can get kids to a track accessable by a road ambo.

I guess one concern is l have seen people with massive kits and there is no way they know what half of it is by watching htem deal with simple things! Often less is more...in my experience? Not saying that having an extensive vehicle based kit is not valuable either. I carry a fairly decent unit in the LR when l go on private trips to.

This was a very interesting thread to read. Thanks for the insight, Craig.

Cheers,
Mike

Hey Mike,
You are right for most less is more for most first aid kits. No point carrying a lot of stuff you dont have to use. Even in the ambulances we carry gear we are not trained to use, but is there if we take a doctor or suitablly qualified nurse.
However in outback WA or NT or even parts of Qld there are not helicopters available quickly. The only designated rescue choppper in WA is the RAC Rescue chopper that is based out of Jandakott in Perth, so could be several hours even in the SW of WA let alone the NW. Then if there has been rain the RFDS or another plane may not be an option either.
Our government have a lot to answer for, biggest state and least emergency resources to evac someone.
Last time I looked between Qld, NSW, Vic, SA there were over 20 available dedicated rescue and medical helicopters to basically cover half the the country land mass. Only 2 for the rest.
So requirements are a little different.
Cheers
Craig

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I would only pack it if someone in my family / party was prescribed it for a condition of theirs.

Packing it just in case some stranger may need it one day I wouldnt recommend. Fair enough if its their own epipen thats been prescribed to them then by all means help them out.

Most epipens will never be used before their expirary date and I definitely wouldnt want to risk giving somebody an out of date pen

I have discussed this with many doctors and in their opinion an out of date epi pen will do no harm and at worst have no effect, at best will help. Hey if they are going to die. So its really a no lose situation. However if it appeared to be discoloured I would not use it. Ofcourse an in date one is always #1 choice. The majority of medications just lose their potency.
Many people use Ventolin etc out of date as it is better than nothing at all.
But you are correct in a way and unless you know what can be used and where and you are trained to do so it is not a good idea.

I'm a little more cautious these days. I now ask myself how would my actions be perceived by a coronial inquest.

Havent had the pleasure yet but plenty of my colleagues have and some are sweating on an upcoming one.

To cover my butt (if a sat phone is available) I would at least attempt to contact an RFDS Dr for a consult (if the patient is unknown to me).

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I'm a little more cautious these days. I now ask myself how would my actions be perceived by a coronial inquest.

Havent had the pleasure yet but plenty of my colleagues have and some are sweating on an upcoming one.

To cover my butt (if a sat phone is available) I would at least attempt to contact an RFDS Dr for a consult (if the patient is unknown to me).

That is where the "Good Samaritan Act" comes in. As long as you have done your best to your abilities and competencies you can not be held accountable in a court whether civil, criminal or coronial. Not to say you wont get grilled, but you are covered by the act. As I have said you would always use an in date dose you would always use that first. We get trained that after any incident you maintain I did the best to my ability and competency. However do something you have not been trained to do or is regarded as reckless endangerment and you could be in a spot of bother.
The reality is how are they going to know if it was an in date or out of date item? For professional use it would be noted as you are supposed to verify, but having said that if you are on your own with an unconscious casualty all you can do is double check and document. A little bit like saline, if you dont have new supplies as long as it is clear I would use. On site I usually keep out of date saline and mark it irrigation only, suitable for flushing and burns.
The big thing is anything you do that may involve life saving, administering of any prescription drug, IM or IV drug or solution, you should document it asap so you are not relying on memory and if using something out of date document why and clarity colour.
As said you can not be prosecuted for doing the best of your ability and competency.
However things like penicillin, antibiotics etc I would not use out of date.
As you have said best bet is to ring RFDS doctor, 000 doctor and advise them what you have and if they give you permission to use, then use. May also depend how far out of date and storage. Again document any instructions and doctors name etc for future reference. Not always possible. On sites we always have an emergency number for a doctor, at times it has not been possible or you are put on hold too long and have to make a decision.
Why a note pad and pen is your best friend. As you are doing stuff you can write it on your glove and document later. On more than one occasion I have handed over a glove to hospital staff or St John paramedics when time did not permit to document before handover.
A casualty report form is a great addition as it will prompt checks and documentation at all levels of training. I have made and customised these to suit all levels. You only undertake what you are trained to do and you do not white out changes, but cross out one single line and initial any changes.
If anyone wants a copy of the casualty sheets I use, pm me with your email and I will send. Print out and keep with first aid kit, I do mine on card 2 on 1 sheet of A4 paper/card.

Cheers
Craig

What about waterproof band aids and some splinter probes?
Also some dressing trays come sealed with contents inside [Tweezers,gauze, etc,etc,single use disposable]
Saline




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