Thread: Victoria Police get New Bullet Proof vests, Great But Why?

Yes, there is paperwork...of course there is...not many occupations get by without it. Paperwork associated with the charging process/statements/putting the brief together/forensic procedures. But to the extent to which the author of the thread is suggesting - that there are no police working the street and thus money for tactical equipment is better spent on items from Q stores is quite ludicrous. It's a bit hard to wrap a murder brief around a bloke and secure a conviction with only a 2 page notebook statement from the person that found the body.

In simple terms, if a car is tied up with a lock up, say a domestic, they are off the road for a period of time. A deceased/fatal accidents - you are pretty much stuffed for the shift depending upon the circumstances. But other cars take the workload. However, the the task of gathering ALL the paperwork for the brief usually takes weeks, if not months. Police will ask for, but not often get, correspondence days to attend to such paperwork. The bare bones is done at the time, enough to get the charging process finalised/interview conducted, then they are back on the road. I'm talking uniformed (general duties) police here. The backbone of any police force.

And let's face it, the majority of police work is REACTIVE ie reacting to the event...they do try to be proactive, and when they are, it often results in arrests, thus taking them off the road.

Well it differs from state to state BUT...

Paperwork for a simple offence can also vary greatly;

Of course, the investigation, interview (on video/audio? or notebook), then arrest/report of offender, statements from witnesses etc have all been taken,comprehensive notes made and a number of other little bits and pieces done..
Return to station, log onto system (3 levels of security -on LAN system then into apprehension system- abt 4 minutes gone!)

It starts with an apprehension report, this is a computer entered form which covers the basic details of the matter and identifies those involved.
The easiest offence would take at least 45mins to complete the "AP" for submission.

If there is a victim in the matter then a Police Incident report must also be entered, this is again a computer generated form which sets out the offence details, items damaged/stolen or assault etc. 15-30 minutes entry

This then also requires a victims statement, on affadavit (less serious offence) or declaration, and after being typed and set out, must be returned to, reread and then signed by victim (add additional levels of this if any witnesses-statement and affadavit/dec. etc)

Of course depending on the offence an investigating Officers Statement may be required, hopefully if a guilty plea the interview wont have to be transcribed.

The file may also require photos of damage,property recovered or injuries etc. These can be taken digitally to "tide things over" until CRIME SCENE Examiners can supply their copies ofphotos and an affadavit to accompany it.
(so add time for taking digital photos, saving and printing same, calling and waiting for Crime Scene to arrive to 'hand over the scene/property/victim to them.)

Booking in any exhibits (includes record of interview tapes etc) again a computer based system re entering information already entered a number of times prior!!

Brief cover - this is a header sheet for the file so it can be readied for court, this must list all charges, and all details for police and witnesses, this must include all dates witnesses are unavailable for for the next 12 months
(Think about that, if I ask you now can you tell me dates straight off the bat? Not many people can, so that usually involves a follow up call -add more time)

Then its just things like crim. record checks (all states) to be attached to the file and submit after adding to the offender record book (another data base)

See? Easy no time at all...


BUT if there is a serious offence this may get longer and so so so much more involved....



On the flip side, having been close enough, during the arrest, to a mentally unstable person with a knife (at a school) to get stitches in the side, I personally think it would be a great thing to try and protect those who, as most run away to safety, are running in towards the threat? You may notice that police departments all over the country (and world) are having trouble recruiting...it has a lot to do with no longer being respected and able to enforce the law thru words, to now being the "target" of those that require to have the law enforced by actions. Would you send your kids towards this type of job?

Another way of looking at it... Fire fighters actually put out fires much less regularly than you think, but would anyone begrudge a new fire truck? or a new entry tool that may only be used once a year? Since I know roof tilers who never have got close to falling (so they say) should we take away the roofing handrails and safety straps because of the costs?

I think not...


what price do you put on those lives? If these vests save one life (and they will do so much more than that, preventing injuries also not just guns/knives but contact injuries ,fists, sticks, kicks, vehicle accident injuries etc etc) then theyve paid for themselves.

anyway...as some may know, I am a tad hot on officer safety and equipment due to previous events covered elsewhere, so if this became a rant, sorry!


Digger


<<<<EDIT.. MICK SUMMED IT UP WELL, ITS ALL 'FIRE CONTROL' PUT OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND MOVE TO NEXT FIRE>>>>

Unless things have changed very drastically since I left, there was no time during the shift for the paperwork; this was done at the completion of the shift, often without paid overtime. If the vests were the same as in my time, <2000) they had balistic resistence but did little to prevent injury against bladed instruments.

Originally Posted by steve_35

<snip>
Only problem is now criminals will shoot at their heads

I would prefer they didn't get shot at full stop

<snip>

The vests are a very reasonable expense, after all very few criminals are good shots especially with the adrenaline of the situation pumping.

A head is easy to miss but the chest with all it's vital organs makes a much bigger, easier to hit, target.

But I agree that there is either too much paperwork being done by uniformed Police or there are too few Police (probably both).

There must be ways of handing over some of the Police documentation responsibilities off the officers themselves to civilian Police Service employees, transcription typists, legal secretaries and researchers for example, and better coordination of Police attendance in Court so they don't waste entire days sitting around waiting for the case to require their evidence.

Originally Posted by MickS

Y But to the extent to which the author of the thread is suggesting - that there are no police working the street and thus money for tactical equipment is better spent on items from Q stores is quite ludicrous..

Mick what I was saying is tongue in cheek, I'm all for the better equipment, but let them use it. Policing is not what it used to be in the old days, now some offences are turned a blind eye to just because the paper work to process it is too much.
Policing has changed over the years, less time making their presence felt in the community. No fault of their own, just shortage of numbers.

Originally Posted by It'sNotWorthComplaining!

Mick what I was saying is tongue in cheek, I'm all for the better equipment, but let them use it. Policing is not what it used to be in the old days, now some offences are turned a blind eye to just because the paper work to process it is too much.
Policing has changed over the years, less time making their presence felt in the community. No fault of their own, just shortage of numbers.

I thought that was the angle you were coming from. But when all is said and done, as Diana said, some of the mundane tasks could be done by public servants. Yet when the NSW government cut back PS numbers a few years ago after a "review"..no one said anything. Now, one public servant in a police station is doing the job of three people. I've said for years that the arresting crew should be able to just convey, drop, hand over and move on to the next job.

ERISP transcriptions will only be done for serious matters by the transcription unit. If you want your interview transcribed for court, it's usually done by yourself, usually after hours and you don't get paid for it. Best result is if an offender refuses an interview.

There are more police on our streets than ever before, yet why are they always taking forever to deal with the noise complaint, or the kids you just saw graffiti the local high school? Many become corridor creepers, after only a very short time in the job. Old school cops are leaving in droves, and you are left with very young and/or inexperienced police dealing with some serious crime scenes. A double murder say, at 2am...offender in custody...one car crew on because they are cutting back on shift allowances due to a broke government and its Wednesday night and the "stats" show nothing EVER happens on a Wednesday night.. 2 junior police on the truck, nervous and unsure of what to do next because it's the first murder they have attended.....crime scene needs preserving...no detectives on duty because they only work dayshifts.....

This sort of stuff happens every day...it's policing by the seat of your pants. The government will spin that they have police numbers at record levels, that that the figures show crime is down...but they don't tell you they are cooking the books as far as stats go - that an unsolvable assault is marked down on the system as an "occurrence only" and thus does not show up in the stats....that a domestic dispute is marked down as a noise complaint....that despite the record numbers of police recruitment, usually about 3 months out from an election, just as many, if not more, are leaving. That on any one day, in excess of 1000 police are off on stress leave.

Police training - most would agree that police need more training, especially in relation to officer survival. Yet a force of 16,000 police who receive a 2 day training training package per year have to have those 2 days of training (equivalent to 32,000 shifts) covered for the absences created by them attending training. Get my drift? I wouldn't work in rosters if you doubled my pay. Add to that court, sick leave, annual leave, long service leave...the list goes on.

Bosses go "woohoo" because they saved $100K on this years budget - so that's $100K less they get next year. Dickheads. Your average street cop is so under the pump to get "stats", not lock ups, that when their stats are down for the month, their coit is reamed from here to Bourke and back.

NSW Police release more crime detail after Victims Voice campaign launched by The Daily Telegraph | The Daily Telegraph

Time for a pill..

As Digger and Mick S suggest, police work is a thankless, often no-win situation. What ever the situation is happening the Police are wrong to at least one side (the ones being arrested/charged) and often more sides, the victim complains the P took too long to arrive, the spectators think that the P are available and appropriate targets for verbal abuse and the odd missile from some surreptitious location.

Have never done the job myself, but have had close contact with many coming into emergency departments etc. In fact years ago I was working in the locked admission ward of Gladesville Psychiatric Hospital and a "paddy" wagon and two police cars pulled up out the front. About 10 Police were required to manhandle the patient from the car to the front door of the ward. My co-worker, a female, of about 5'5" and about 40Kg wringing wet, went to recieve the patient. As soon as the patient saw he was being handed over to a nurse, he stopped struggling and walked inside the ward un-assisted. It all has to do with the blue uniform, some people see it and out comes the agression, irrespective of the actions of the P wearing the uniform.

I wouldn't do the job if they paid me, but I admire (most) of those who have the courage to do it.

IMHO They should be supplied with what ever piece of PPE that they need, no questions and irrespective of the current budget priorities of the Government.

[QUOTE=Lotz-A-Landies;1287721]As Digger and Mick S suggest, police work is a thankless, often no-win situation. What ever the situation is happening the Police are wrong to at least one side (the ones being arrested/charged) and often more sides, the victim complains the P took too long to arrive, the spectators think that the P are available and appropriate targets for verbal abuse and the odd missile from some surreptitious location.
QUOTE]


Yep agree to that, and more specifcally in Victoria not only is it a thankless job but it is becoming a pointless process with suspended sentences being very common.

My respect to anyone in the job!