Thread: Defender Safety

Originally Posted by vnx205

This is what the NRMA has to say on the subject onto which this thread seems to have drifted.

Will an Advanced Driving Course help my Learner Driver?
Advanced driving courses are usually one day events located away from public roads. The NRMA does not recommend these courses for anyone under 25 years of age as they build over-confidence, with a resulting increase in crash statistics.
The courses often claim to make drivers safer, but they can have the opposite effect. Male drivers under 25 years of age, who are already over-represented in road fatality figures, are particularly at risk after attending such courses.
Many young people come to grief when they try to apply newly-learned high end car control skills on public roads. Drivers often become overconfident and more aggressive after attending these courses.
Racetracks and public roads are two completely different driving environments and young people often have difficulty drawing a distinction between the two.
Advanced driving courses can be fun but are better suited to mature drivers over 25 or those who are keen on amateur motor sport.
Defensive driving techniques are built into the NRMA Safer Driving Program. We teach young drivers how to react in all real world driving situations so they don't have to rely on emotional responses and undeveloped skills.

Source: Safer Driving FAQs - Safer Driving School - NRMA Motoring & Services

I was really trying to stay away from where this thread has gone but that quote from the NRMA (of which I'm a member) has drawn me out.

If I was to be totally cynical, that is merely a scree to say "you should spend your money on our course and we'll use emotional manipulation wrapped in a pseudo logical manner to sell it to you"

It's a case of semantics, trying to differentiate between 'Advanced Driver Training' versus 'Defensive Driver Training'.

Skills are skills, and any 'Advanced Driver Training Course' I've seen or known the principles of (and I've known a few) work on defensive skills quite heavily (initially), then if it is a race focus go onto track specific techniques.
They basically knock the bravado out of them, show how bad their judgement and skills are, then show the right way to approach things.

Any argument saying that advanced skills lead to more accidents is like saying teaching kids sex education leads to more pregnancies, it's a bull**** argument.

Kids are kids, they are going to drive fast and hoon around, we'll never stop that, so teach them the skills needed to actually read the road, the timing and how much time you really do have in any given situation if you approach things properly in the first place and then they might be able to get themselves out of the poop when they get in over their heads.
We might actually save a few more lives and reduce the even greater number of injuries.

I thought the post /poll was about the safety of the Defender.
Forget about the egos and my ability to drive is better than yours type argument.
Its possible that any one of us could be involved in an accident doesnt matter whos fault it is, the issue is if we are in a Defender will the occupants be injured.
Later model Defenders have always done badly in rollovers the older ones are better.
That said I have got around in them for the last 30 years and not had an issue.
If you were concerned about it put a roll cage in it.

Originally Posted by djam1

I thought the post /poll was about the safety of the Defender.
Forget about the egos and my ability to drive is better than yours type argument.
Its possible that any one of us could be involved in an accident doesnt matter whos fault it is, the issue is if we are in a Defender will the occupants be injured.
Later model Defenders have always done badly in rollovers the older ones are better.
That said I have got around in them for the last 30 years and not had an issue.
If you were concerned about it put a roll cage in it.

I have just had reply emails from Protection and Performance UK who do cages for Top Gear etc etc regarding 1/2 ext and 1/2 internal for 110 County. The prices are very good and I am just waiting now for a shipping quote. The pics are on my work computer, will try and post them if anyone is interested. They are a bolt in type, and look well finished.


Because the front external type is very reminiscent of a roof bar type of bracketry, shouldn't have a transport dept issue.


JC

Justin one bloke I know is doing an external roll cage for his pootrol SWB with a ute body(rock basher) as it cuts out to much room if internal in NSW the way he was told to go to avoid expensive eng. cert. was to call it a roof rack and make sure it bolted to the chassis was not welded to the chassis/ body.

Originally Posted by justinc

I have just had reply emails from Protection and Performance UK who do cages for Top Gear etc etc regarding 1/2 ext and 1/2 internal for 110 County. The prices are very good and I am just waiting now for a shipping quote. The pics are on my work computer, will try and post them if anyone is interested. They are a bolt in type, and look well finished.


Because the front external type is very reminiscent of a roof bar type of bracketry, shouldn't have a transport dept issue.


JC

I'd hate to see what the shipping is from the UK, JC

I have some 130 CC Safety Devices int/ext cage pics on the PC somewhere, I can post them up as a comparison when you find your piccies.

Justin, I'd think seriously about welding it on,,(as in, yes weld it.)

This link shows the cages. http://www.safetydevices.com/images/...efender110.pdf

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

Justin, I'd think seriously about welding it on,,(as in, yes weld it.)

shouldnt be to hard to weld something on and make it look bolted on, or bolt it on for the purpose of calling it a roof rack, have it inspected and then weld it on