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Celtoid,
The talk about about Jags or Toyotas was not mine.
My point was merely that these vehicles are not designed to be serviced at home by your regular backyard mechanic once past the warranty/dealer servicing period, and this was a persuading factor in one person's purchase that you took exception to.
Come the morning the posts you are confusing may be clearer.
Yes indeed, my apology. I had confused your post with another.Quote:
Originally Posted by isuzutoo-eh
On the dipstick point however, it is electronic....you can check your own levels.
I believe there was another thread ages ago that suggests that there is a manual way around that....but if the indication works, why would you?
But you are correct...this vehicle is not designed to be serviced by Mr average..electronically at least..but what new piece of equipment is?
However, there are plenty of guys on this forum who are very well versed on the in's and out's of the D3s and 4s.
Cheers,
Kev.
Not in SA. Ppl go into huge debt to buy fancy cars. When the economy tanked in 2008, hundreds of thousands of cars were repossessed all over the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by slug_burner
No I don't own a D4. But I am not the one heaping it on them. If I could afford one I would have a 3.0 TD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtoid
Not sure which bit of ****e you are referring to? The bit in quotes and italics came from another post.
Originally Posted by slug_burner https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...016/08/768.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by slug_burner
"The D4's about as practical off road as an XJ-12 Jaguar"
hmm! What can I say. You got me there. :o
Sorry mate, that was obviously humour....I mistakenly took that as you concurring.
[smilebigeye]It is good to see the passion L.R. owners have for their vehicles, and if D3/D4 owners are happy with their 4x4's, good, I'm glad.I seem to recall the TD5 engine had its fair share of knockers for many years, still does , especially from Toyota and Nissan owners, but over the years those problems have been sorted , and owners have the shared knowledge of A.U.L.R.O. members to call on to maintain their vehicles.I am sure no-one is meaning to knock a particular make or model of 4x4, people are concerned at the direction they perceive manufacturers are heading. L.R. owners in general seem to be an independant lot, part of the attraction of owning one is working on them, and apart from the satisfaction of a job done, it does save a lot of hard earned to do that.Rightly or wrongly, the perception is the latest 4x4[ of most makes] will be just too difficult for the average person to maintain, having to be sent to dealers for maintainence, thereby adding greatly to the cost over the life of the vehicle.My point is this--- I would like to talk to a D3/D4 owner when their vehicle has 322000 km's on it[ as my D2 has] and see if they are still happy with them[ as I am with my D2] I really hope they will be, happy new year all, Bob
I have no doubt of the off road ability of many new 4wds and good luck to those who can afford one and not worry about off road damage. The big question, for me, is the longivety of the electronics. Not going to be an issue when buying new, but for the rest of us who buy used, how will the electronics hold up in a 10 or 15 year old D4. These computerised whizz bangs haven't been around long enough yet for a definitive answer.
Just a personal thing, but I would rather have something basic and simple because I can't stand something not working; even a minor thing. I would rather have no air con than one that was not working properly, which would annoy the crap out of me. Maybe I'm mental, but the simpler it is, the easier to repair (even by me) and the happier my trip will be. The less there is, the less to go wrong.
For those like me, the fact is, there is (new) simple stuff still out there, just very limited variety. The important thing is that you like what you drive. Its your money, screw what anyone else thinks (unless you don't buy a car to drive but to be seen to be driving. Rolls Royce anyone?)
The way I see it, the electronic "whizbangs" fall into 3 categories:
1. Electronics now required on all cars by law due to emissions legislation. This means that an engine is far more complicated, resulting in a far reduced ability for backyard repairs. Unless you have all the diagnostic equipment of a dealer. Advantage is greater reliability and efficiency. Disadvantage is that if anything does go wrong in the bush, then you will probably not be able to fix it.
2. Electronics for added safety and ability. Things such as airbags, ABS, stability control, traction control, electronic air suspension, ... Most of these things are not a "must have" in a new car, but personally I think seriously about my family and in particular, the safety of my kids, and I prefer to have them. With the potential exception of the EAS, any of these things failing will not stop you from continuing.
3. Electronics for ease of use and entertainment. Things such as remote central locking, automatic wipers / headlights, electric seat adjustment, power windows, ipod integration, bluetooth, ... Most of this stuff I could take or leave (power windows and central locking I would keep). Once again, any of these things failing will not stop you from continuing.
I have an old Series III (in need of repairs to get it back on the road again), and it is so harsh, loud (no need for a radio because you would not hear it anyway), heavy steering, slow, uncomfortable, did I say loud??. I absolutely love it as a toy, but as an every day, or even a tourer? Are you kidding, I am not a sadist.
Give me my Discovery 3 any day. Ability is way greater than I will ever use, and in absolute comfort, on and off road.
Cheers, Matt.
I think it is easy to shoot the messenger and blame the "electronics" for any problem that arises. It is very rarely that the actual electronics that fail - it is usually the mechanical or electrics that feed into the electronics that have the issues.
The electronics are very good at communicating issues to the driver that may have been missed. Take the three amigos on D2s and Freelanders - it is not the ABS computer that has the fault - it has detected something else - either a faulty sensor or some dirt in the system. All the electronics is doing is saying there is a fault which normally would be missed. The advantage of the electronics is that the computer can go on a computer and tell you what is wrong or at least point you in the right direction. The cost of these maintenance computers like Nanocom etc are coming down and can even be carried in the car.
My own Freelander has had the check engine light on twice - on both occasions the test box pointed to the area of concern - one was a temperature sender and the other the electro/mechanical fuel shut off valve. In both cases the car continued to run and was easily fixed.
As far as maintenance goes - why can't you easily maintain your computer controlled car - changing oils etc, checking mechanicals is still the same, the computers mean you no longer have to tune up your car - only change plugs etc when required - you had to buy special tools for your old dinosaurs to keep it on the road so why not the new computer controlled stuff - just different tools.
Some complain that you cannot fix it if it broke down - well newer stuff is less prone to breaking down and often if it does the computer often helps by going to limp mode and you can still drive - if a modern car does stop for good it will generally be for similar mechanical reasons as the good ole days.
It is rare the electronics break down - it is usually some other electrical or mechanical part that inputs to the computer - people blame the electronics because it is the means drivers learn what is going on - shoot the messenger.
If some of you had your way we would still be driving around in magneto cars with no batteries because we would be too scared that the battery would fail or the coil would fail.
With new cars the issues are the same but how you deal with them is different - we need to move with the times.
Have a look at my signature and see that I have a mix of old and new cars - I spend far more time on the old stuff (and not because it is old) than I do on the new ones. Overall the Freelander (first generation electronics) has been the most reliable car I have owned with the least maintenance requirement and I am hoping the RRS will be better.
Garry
Reliability, simplicity and economy has all been mentioned. As have remarks about capability of various models.
It is all quite simple for me. You do not drive modern vehicles, you steer them. There are so many electronic aids on a modern vehicle, driving them is no more, simple point and go...
I like to drive vehicles. I like to be in control of it all. Old vehicles allow this nicely... :D