Courier Mail article- ban bull bars

All of this is said and done by people who never driven in an environment which requires a bullbar.

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Originally Posted by Ace

All of this is said and done by people who never driven in an environment which requires a bullbar.

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What you say may be true Ace. But do you have any evidence? Or do others have any evidence, as Ace is certainly not the first to make such a claim?

Cheers
KarlB
:)

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Originally Posted by KarlB

What you say may be true Ace. But do you have any evidence? Or do others have any evidence, as Ace is certainly not the first to make such a claim?

Cheers
KarlB
:)

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Maybe not, but if said people had driven in the bush then maybe they would be more sympathetic to the cause and understand that a full ban on bullbars is unreasonable and not feasible.

Its clear old mate in the article posted has no idea what so ever and as opposed to talking facts about bullbars has just engaged in stereotyping 4wders in general.

Its clear that bullbars are no good for pedestrians, being hit by any motor vehicle isnt good, but banning bullbars is only treating a symptom, not the cause. The problem is people walking out on the road. Why cant the pedestrian council adress these problems? Because picking on 4wd owners is their agenda and they dont actually care about pedestrian safety, some pencil pusher has decided they dont like bullbars.

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Originally Posted by Ace

Maybe not, but if said people had driven in the bush then maybe they would be more sympathetic to the cause and understand that a full ban on bullbars is unreasonable and not feasible.

Its clear old mate in the article posted has no idea what so ever and as opposed to talking facts about bullbars has just engaged in stereotyping 4wders in general.

Its clear that bullbars are no good for pedestrians, being hit by any motor vehicle isnt good, but banning bullbars is only treating a symptom, not the cause. The problem is people walking out on the road. Why cant the pedestrian council adress these problems? Because picking on 4wd owners is their agenda and they dont actually care about pedestrian safety, some pencil pusher has decided they dont like bullbars.

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Again you may be correct but do you have any evidence that the agenda of the pedestrian council is "picking on 4wd owners"; that "some pencil pusher has decided they dont like bullbars". I am not picking on you Ace, such claims as you have made have been made before by others on the forum.

It seems to me that the emotive out-pourings amongst the converted as we have been seeing on the forum, achieves very little. Bullbars will be banned unless people can provide real statistical evidence that either: they don't significantly contribute to the road trauma suffered by pedestrians and cyclists (including motor bike riders) or other motor vehicle occupants; or that they significantly reduce serious trauma to occupants of vehicles fitted with them. The industry survey that was the subject of another bullbar thread, was clearly directed towards gathering such evidence.

Cheers
KarlB

:)

I thought speed caused everything, I guess it is now feasible to add image processing to a 'safety camera' and automatically fine those fitted with some bar work.

Banning smoking would save a lot more lives, so would banning fatty foods, banning gambling and banning the sale of all pointy objects.

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Originally Posted by KarlB

Again you may be correct but do you have any evidence that the agenda of the pedestrian council is "picking on 4wd owners"; that "some pencil pusher has decided they dont like bullbars". I am not picking on you Ace, such claims as you have made have been made before by others on the forum.

It seems to me that the emotive out-pourings amongst the converted as we have been seeing on the forum, achieves very little. Bullbars will be banned unless people can provide real statistical evidence that either: they don't significantly contribute to the road trauma suffered by pedestrians and cyclists (including motor bike riders) or other motor vehicle occupants; or that they significantly reduce serious trauma to occupants of vehicles fitted with them. The industry survey that was the subject of another bullbar thread, was clearly directed towards gathering such evidence.

Cheers
KarlB

:)

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I understand that you arent picking on me karl, this is a discussion which i entered in to.

I dont have any evidence, just what has been happening. Why should we be required to provide evidence, surely that is up to those wishing to push for the banning of bullbars. Its all good and well to say they are bad when a pedestrian is hit by one, but have those who want to ban them quoted figures on how many people are hit by vehicles with bullbars? I certainly havent seen any, just lots of columnists who jump on the band wagon and sprook stereotypes as such.

You dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that you would be better off being hit by a barina than a range rover with a bullbar. But there are lots of things in society that are dangerous to people, should we ban everything.

Matt

Slow news week, no more no less.

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Originally Posted by SuperMono

Banning smoking would save a lot more lives, so would banning fatty foods, banning gambling and banning the sale of all pointy objects.

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My point exactly. I asked the question in Vlads thread if there had ever been any results posted of all pedestrians injured or killed and how many of those involved a vehicle fitted with a bullbar. I was shown stats somewhere, cant remember where, that a large percentage of pedestrians were hit whilst intoxicated and either fell in front of the car or simply staggered out in front of it.

The statstics that will be used to justify any ban will include figures from over seas (including Europe). Arguments that this is Australia and not Europe, that we are different, that there are no large animals in Europe, etc, will just not wash.

Just out of interest, today I received an email from ARB promoting the industrey survey. The email was topped with this image of a red Defender:

http://www.arb.com.au/e-news/2011/bullbar-banner.jpg

Now that is how to get Landie people on-side!

Cheers
KarlB
:)http://www.arb.com.au/e-news/spacer.gif

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Originally Posted by KarlB

The statstics that will be used to justify any ban will include figures from over seas (including Europe).

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I have never seen any figures which show bullbars to have an impact on road safety. I would be very interested if you can produce any???

There has been a test by monash, but all real-world data I have seen are inconclusive.