Courier Mail article- ban bull bars

Karl is there anything a bit more up to date, say this century, as two of the links you posted are from studies over 30 years old! One of their "conclusions":D was that from around 8-900 total and 200 pedestrian deaths per year in victoria about 6 where atributable to bullbars? :eek: Who paid for this? And how is it relevant?

The final truth or lie whichever way you view it is in the RAW statistics:

Table 1 Vehicles involved in fatal road crashes, by crash type: 1999 to 2001

Single Vehicle

Multiple Vehicle

Pedestrian

Car

1122

71%

2021

62%

547

67%

4WD & FCV

273

17%

372

11%

89

11%

Bus

5

0%

45

1%

29

4%

Rigid truck

122

8%

475

15%

102

13%

Art. Truck

61

4%

354

11%

45

6%

Total

1583

100%

3267

100%

812

100%

　

Source: DITRDLG Australian Road Deaths Database

So what we have is the 4wd/suv market running at around 20-25% of the sales of new cars in Oz but being responsible for less fatalities percentage wise than any other vehicle beside motorcycles!
But some spin doctor has decided the bullbar to be a good target so they can all push that issue , not the one about the modern 6cyl falcodore putting out more HP than an 89 hsv V8 and the inner-city traffic light drag race by everything from transit vs hiace's vs express delivery vans to polo's and corrollas to BMW7 series and s-class mercs that accelerate much harder than any diesel 4x4 with an ARB bar and so do much more damage(through higher impact speed) upon impact with a bluetoothed SMSer wandering blindly into traffic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ace

I dont know, thats why I asked you :D

I assume that those figures were based on insurance claims and police reports. But how many reports were not made because the bullbar prevented damage and therefore negated the need to report it.

Its something we will never know, but something that the people who are pushing the banning of bullbars will not consider. Its very easy to manipulate statistics by including this, excluding that etc.

---

I agree. We don't know but several have made the allegation that the incidence of animal strike is high. Should we accept WAGs as evidence? I don't believe so. And once again: is there any evidence that the people who are pushing for the banning of bullbars won't consider that bullbars prevent damage, etc? Indeed, If I recall correctly, the Regulation Impact Statement discusses the value of bullbars in vehicle protection.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frantic

Karl is there anything a bit more up to date, say this century, as two of the links you posted are from studies over 30 years old! One of their "conclusions":D was that from around 8-900 total and 200 pedestrian deaths per year in victoria about 6 where atributable to bullbars? :eek: Who paid for this? And how is it relevant?

---

I included the older reference (in 2 parts) because that is about when bullbars started to be considered a 'safety concern' in Australia. I did include a reference from 2000 and one from 2009 to simply illustrate that this is not a new, and out of the blue, issue. It has been looming for years. I was certainly aware of the issue in the early 1980s. I am no expert on this stuff but readily found these references on the net. The two later reports will lead you to other reports and the Regulation Impact Statement lists 47 references of varying relevance and is full of other interesting figures and data. As I said earlier, I am not an advocate for the banning of bullbars nor would I attempt to defend any of the reports and any conclusions contained therein. But as my old dad would have said, "there is not much to be gained from continually pi$$ing in your mates pocket". And with that said, no more comments from me on this issue (at least until there is some significant further development).

Cheers
KarlB
:)

Would a minority government be brave enough to implement this?

I doubt it.

Waz

Maybe we need to start a new thread to find out the statistics for animal strikes in last 10 years.
eg. Warren9981 roo strike 1, cow/horse strike 0, roo/bull bar not fitted, vehicle not seriously damaged.

If enough people on the forum responded you would quickly generate statistics regarding effectiveness of bars or not.

Incidentally, I would imagine if bars were banned, insurance premiums would have to rise significantly as a lot more vehicles would be written off. I had my Discovery 1 written off after hitting a tree at less than 40kph. Would be a lot more damage hitting a kangaroo at 90-100kph. Unfortunately it would be unlikely the city folk would see their insurance premiums increase. It would be us poor country folk as the insurers would see that vehicles in rural areas were sustaining greater damage and/or being written off, and would consequently increase premiums for certain postcodes. The same as if you live in certain areas your home premium increases.
Just my 2c worth anyway.

Hi guys I have an email from ARB regarding proposed changes to federal rules that will in effect ban the fitment of bull bars & nudges ( as well as probably driving lights & winches )This is to fall in line with european regulations.

Please read & complete survey ASAP for all our good

Gary


From: "ARB Corporation Ltd" <donotreply@arb.com.au>
Subject: Bull Bars Under Threat
Date: Tuesday, 25 January 2011 4:37 PM
If you are unable to view this email correctly, please visit
http://mailer.volume.net.au/display....1637&L=2&N=763
[http://mailer.volume.net.au/display....637&L=2&N=763]

[]ARB 4x4 Accessories
[http://mailer.volume.net.au/link.php...637&L=2411&F=T BARS UNDER
THREAT ARB,
in conjunction with the Australian 4WD Industry Council has launched a
national on-line
public survey to collect information from the public about their use of
bull bars and nudge bars.
The safety of Australian motorists that drive vehicles fitted with bull
bars and nudge bars is
threatened by proposed new Federal Government regulations, which are based
on rules
developed for the European environment and road conditions by the United
Nations Economic
Cooperation for Europe (UNECE).

The 4WD Industry Council wants up-to-date information about bull and nudge
bars
- also known as "vehicle front protection systems" (VFPS)
- for its consultations with the Department of Infrastructure, Transport
and Regional Development in Canberra about the proposed regulation.
This regulation focuses on pedestrian safety - not vehicle and occupant
safety.

The Department has now released a Regulation Impact Statement for
Pedestrian Safety
Standards for public consultation, which closes on 15 April 2011. This
document includes
extensive discussion on "VFPS" and contains options for the regulation of
bull bars.

By completing the 4WD Industry Council's survey, participants will help
meet the need
for current accurate data on the use of bull and nudge bars. The Council
hopes to learn more
about vehicle types, driving patterns and critical safety issues, such as
animal strikes
and other impacts.

Adoption of this overseas rule would make it impossible in Australia to fit
bull and nudge bars,
which are designed to protect drivers and passengers in front end animal
strikes
and other impacts. It may also ban winches and driving lights.

The Federal Department has released the proposed regulation for a three
month
consultation period. We want to collect road users' views and report them
as part
of the industry response.

The survey takes only moments to complete and is totally confidential. We
will add this
new data to a report recently commissioned by the Council to study animal
strikes
on Australian roads.

These Council initiatives respond to the lack of uniform data about the
estimated
25,000 to 30,000 vehicle-to-animal strikes occurring each year across
Australia.
We do not believe that good regulatory decisions can be made without proper
research
and without canvassing all key issues.

ARB encourages road users to complete the on-line survey as soon as
possible.
The Survey closes on 31 March 2011. For every person completing the
questionnaire,
the Council will donate $1 to the Royal Flying Doctor Service, to a maximum
of $20,000.

Click here to start the survey
[]Bull Bars Under Threat

[http://mailer.volume.net.au/link.php...2413&F=T]Happy 4
wheeling,
The ARB 4x4 Accessories Team

To contact us, visit our website at

WWW.ARB.COM.AU
[]ARB 4x4 Accessories

To unsubscribe from this email, please click here
[http://mailer.volume.net.au/unsubscr...4b&L=2&N=1637].

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frantic

So what we have is the 4wd/suv market running at around 20-25% of the sales of new cars in Oz but being responsible for less fatalities percentage wise than any other vehicle beside motorcycles!

But some spin doctor has decided the bullbar to be a good target so they can all push that issue , not the one about the modern 6cyl falcodore putting out more HP than an 89 hsv V8 and the inner-city traffic light drag race by everything from transit vs hiace's vs express delivery vans to polo's and corrollas to BMW7 series and s-class mercs that accelerate much harder than any diesel 4x4 with an ARB bar and so do much more damage(through higher impact speed) upon impact with a bluetoothed SMSer wandering blindly into traffic.

---

Thats it in a nutshell. They are pushing to ban something that really isnt that much of an issue. I mean how many 4wd's in the city have a bullbar. Alot of the prado's and stuff that I see running around rarely have one and if they do then im sure it goes bush a few times a year.