Thread: Ambulances and red lights.

G'day Folks

Many years ago in Brisbane the Metropolitan Fire Brigade (MF used to drive LHD Macks,all equipt with a large brass bell,this even if one was driving the noiseiest of trucks would be clearly audiable, maybe it was the frequency of it, but it was much clearer than the sirens used on the Ambulances and Police cars,coupled with the fact that if you didn't get out of the way one would get a slight shove, I have seen (and followed) a Mack going to a fire at Mt.Gravatt along Logan Rd round up a tram on the wrong side, with us following in an FJ

There are people on this site that can well remember "Healey's Red Devils"

All this was in an era before flashing lights and strobes, the ambulances just had one steady red/white maltese cross light above the windscreen.
cheers

This has already been tested in the courts. 2 motorists moved into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get through. They were both booked by a red light camera, and appealed to the courts, and lost....

So as sad as it is, the only ones to blame if someone dies due to a delay like this, is the government for putting the cameras in, and not allowing any tolerence on them. I feel sorry for the person or people waiting for the ambulance, but I understand why the motorists did what they did.

Originally Posted by bacicat2000

This has already been tested in the courts. 2 motorists moved into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get through. They were both booked by a red light camera, and appealed to the courts, and lost....

So as sad as it is, the only ones to blame if someone dies due to a delay like this, is the government for putting the cameras in, and not allowing any tolerence on them. I feel sorry for the person or people waiting for the ambulance, but I understand why the motorists did what they did.

I'd make sure I was on the front step at the autopsy with my ticket in hand Better still, at the coronial.

Originally Posted by MickS

I'd make sure I was on the front step at the autopsy with my ticket in hand Better still, at the coronial.

Unfortunatly, It's probably the only way that you would get them to listen...

Originally Posted by Michael2

The advice here is to slow down and proceed through. Compulsorly stopping on approaching the intersection actually increases danger, as cars that have right of way and are about to stop and give way, think you're letting them through. It's best to enter the intersection (if safe) at a low speed.

Originally Posted by Drover

Fire & Rescue NSW ( NSW Fire Brigade) appliances are only required to slow to 8kmp/h to proceed through a red light or stop sign.

I've been arguing this point with the powers that be in the RFS for years Our driving SOP's say we must slow to a safe speed at a give way sign; but must stop at a red light or stop sign. There's not too many experienced response drivers that actually come to a halt for exactly the same reason as Michael2 has stated.

That said, we had a pretty big wake up call here late yesterday:

<http://www.news.com.au/national/woman-dies-after-crash-with-police-van/story-e6frfkwi-1226003653393>

A SELFLESS woman who spent a month helping Queensland flood victims has been killed in a car accident with a police vehicle.
Gillian Harman, 48, was driving towards her home in Guyra, near Armidale, NSW, when a police vehicle responding to a Triple-0 call collided with her car.

The impact of the collision flipped Ms Harman’s Toyota sedan onto it’s side, and she died at the scene from horrific injuries.

Her mother Jan Harman told The Daily Telegraph Ms Harman was a hard-working and adored woman, who had just returned from a month of volunteering in QLD.

"She works for Centrelink ... they asked for volunteers to go up to QLD, and she said yes straight away," Mrs Harman said.

For four weeks, Ms Harman worked long days helping the thousands of people in the Chincilla region to restore their lives after the devastating floods.

"That’s the sort of person she was," Mrs Harman said.

Ms Harman was driving home from work in Armidale on Wednesday night, when the accident happened at the intersection of Faulkner and Newton Sts in Armidale.

Police said two officers were on their way to an "urgent domestic dispute".

"The two male officers in the police van were able to get out. They tried to help the 48-year-old woman from Guyra who was the sole occupant of the sedan. She sustained fatal injuries and died at the scene," police said in a statement.

A critical incident team is investigating the circumstances surrounding the accident.
Sources told The Daily Telegraph they believe police were travelling at high speed and there was a question of whether police were using their lights and sirens.

I saw this on News.com.au

What really got my goat going, was all the idiots having a shot at the coppers saying they shouldn't be driving fast without lights & sirens.

They were responding to a 000 call for a domestic, and it is well known that the sound of a siren approaching can have the effect of inflaming an already volitile situation.

It is extremely sad that this woman lost her life. But, until the full investigation is done, no-one will know for certain what happened.

Something to think about, If we get caught in this situation in our trucks, we turn sirens off and wait if there is no way around. It is dangerous to push a vehicle through a red light so to speak. It would be an offence for a normal vehicle to run a red light. Also dangerous, as other road users from another direction would or may not be aware. Simple - don't run the red light. Emergency appliances have rules on this and will only go through a red light under lights and siren if safe to do so. If traffic has totally blocked the intersection, they should keep their lights on but turn the siren off. We get this quite often, on some occasions we may mount the medium strip and go around, again only if safe to do so. Our biggest problem is flowing traffic where people fail to pull over. The other main problem we face is coming into an accident scene where people decide to U- turn as we are coming up.
Afraid it's not the perfect world. on another note in rescue we often find people trying to get patient out of the car. Leave them where they are to prevent further injury, unless they are in a life threatening position, ie car is on fire, this is fairly rare.

Just a note for those in the Melbourne area, We will be conducting a Scene Awareness for 4WD groups later in the year, possibly Mid August to give people a view on accident scenes and what process is involved in vehicle rescue. What not to do etc. This will cover not just general accidentss but also how to make things safe if this occurs in remote areas such as the outback or the high country.

Jake

Originally Posted by numpty

I concur with what others have said, especially Digger. In my job too, I have had the need to run red lights and stop signs, but driving the largest Fire Vehicles in existence (overwidth and height) prompts people to move regardless.

When I had to use the RAAF firies,it was betoken on me to arrange an escort for their Oskoshs (sic I think),which they had at the time.
They are over width and it was impressed on OIC's that they were illegal on the roads in Queensland without the said escorts.
I've had a visit to the airports not only here but also in Sydney and Melbourne and yes they are big mothers.
John.