Thread: Carbon tax debate

The less this government does, the better for everyone. Let's face it, they couldn't run a chook raffle.

I actually agree with a carbon tax on polluters but only if all countries in the world do the same - to go it along will put us at a competitive disadvantage.

A carbon tax will make the goods more expensive and the companies will try to pass increased costs on but consumers will start to try to find cheaper alternatives - companies will try to undercut each other and they will be forced to be more efficient if they are to survive.

A similar thing happened when pollution requirements came into play in the 70s. Aust car makers said they could not do it and continued to sell inefficent cars but sales started to swing to more efficient car makers forcing Ford and Holden to actually compete - the result is what we have today - efficent well made cars that can compete.

The same will apply to the polluters - they will resist at the start - prices will go up - people will shop around for alternatives - companies will start to loose market share and this will start to force them to be more efficient etc.

There will be pain at the start but in the long run we will end up with a better product,

HOWEVER - if Aust is the first or we go alone then any advantages will be lost as it will be simpler to buy from overseas (remember carbon will be taxed on far more than just power stations).

So while I ultimately support a Carbon Tax - not in the form that the Government is proposing.

Garry
BEc, MBA

From what I understand of it the billons (!!!) raised by the tax will simply go round in circles, half - or most depending on who you ask in that circus called a government - will go towards compensation which will in turn end up in the coffers of the companies, which will end up as a carbon tax.

???

If the incorrectly named 'carbon tax' (do they really mean CO2) is supposed to save us from the peril of global warming......

...then, they will have to tell me how much it's going to cost to reduce the earths temperature by each degree, or whatever amount is required to save us all from a fiery doom.

But they can't.

Irrespective of the motive it's an absolute load of rubbish to expect a tax on a country of Australia's size and population to have ANY effect on the atmosphere of the planet. This has F/A to do with the environment and everything to do with satisfying the agenda of the Lima Declaration and similar Socialist crap.

Betcha Messers Brown, Swan, Combet and PM won't be sitting in the cold and darkness during Canberra winters to save the planet....

Matt

Should be in soapbox me thinks, I think they should do it by the way handing the environment to the next generation in a dire state. When asked what did you do about it, well we procrastinated and shoved our heads in the sand is not an answer I'd like to give.

Originally Posted by garrycol

I actually agree with a carbon tax on polluters but only if all countries in the world do the same - to go it along will put us at a competitive disadvantage.

A carbon tax will make the goods more expensive and the companies will try to pass increased costs on but consumers will start to try to find cheaper alternatives - companies will try to undercut each other and they will be forced to be more efficient if they are to survive.

A similar thing happened when pollution requirements came into play in the 70s. Aust car makers said they could not do it and continued to sell inefficent cars but sales started to swing to more efficient car makers forcing Ford and Holden to actually compete - the result is what we have today - efficent well made cars that can compete.

The same will apply to the polluters - they will resist at the start - prices will go up - people will shop around for alternatives - companies will start to loose market share and this will start to force them to be more efficient etc.

There will be pain at the start but in the long run we will end up with a better product,

HOWEVER - if Aust is the first or we go alone then any advantages will be lost as it will be simpler to buy from overseas (remember carbon will be taxed on far more than just power stations).

So while I ultimately support a Carbon Tax - not in the form that the Government is proposing.

Garry
BEc, MBA

Which other countries have a carbon tax?

Finland: introduced the world’s first carbon tax in 1990. Initially the tax exempted few industries and fuels.

In 2010 Finland’s price on carbon was €20 per tonne of CO2. Natural gas has a reduced tax rate, while peat was exempted between 2005-2010.

Taxation of liquid fuels and coal takes account of both their energy content and carbon dioxide emissions, and also emissions into the local environment that have adverse health effects.

The Netherlands: the Netherlands levies a general fuel tax on all fossil fuels. Fuels used as raw materials are not subject to the tax. Tax rates are based on both the energy and carbon contents of fuels.

Sweden: in 1991 Sweden enacted a carbon tax.

With Sweden raising prices on fossil fuels since enacting the carbon tax, it cut its carbon pollution by 9 per cent between 1990 and 2006.

India: a levy on coal producers was introduced in 2010. India expected to raise $535 million from the tax, the first measure used by the subcontinent to reduce companies’ use of fossil fuels.

Norway: in 1991 Norway introduced a tax on carbon. However its carbon emissions increased by 43m per cent per capita between 1991 and 2008.

Denmark: enacted in 1992, Denmark’s carbon tax applies to all energy users, which includes the industrial sector. But industrial companies are taxed differently depending on the process the energy is used for, and whether or not the company has entered into a voluntary agreement to apply energy efficiency measures.

Denmark’s per capita carbon dioxide emissions were nearly 15% lower in 2005 than in 1990.

Switzerland: a carbon incentive tax was introduced in Switzerland in 2008. It includes all fossil fuels, unless they are used for energy. Swiss companies can be exempt from the tax if they participate in the country’s emissions trading system.

Overall, greenhouse gas emissions in Switzerland remained stable between 1990 and 2007.

Ireland: a tax on oil and gas came into effect in 2010. It was estimated to add around €43 to filling a 1000 litre oil tank and €41 to the average annual gas bill.

Costa Rica: in 1997 Costa Rica enacted a tax on carbon pollution, set at 3.5 per cent of the market value of fossil fuels. The revenue raised from this goes into a national forest fund which pays indigenous communities for protecting the forests around them.

(Sources: Businessweek.com; carbontax.org; climatechange.gov.au; crikey.com; nytimes.com; presseurop.eu; guardian.co.uk; environment.fi; irishexaminer.com; irishtimes.com; bafu.admin.ch).

Not to mention China and India as well which not only are implementing taxes and incetives but also are builing large wind and solar power stations

Originally Posted by Chucaro

Which other countries have a carbon tax?

Finland: introduced the world’s first carbon tax in 1990. Initially the tax exempted few industries and fuels.

In 2010 Finland’s price on carbon was €20 per tonne of CO2. Natural gas has a reduced tax rate, while peat was exempted between 2005-2010.

Taxation of liquid fuels and coal takes account of both their energy content and carbon dioxide emissions, and also emissions into the local environment that have adverse health effects.

The Netherlands: the Netherlands levies a general fuel tax on all fossil fuels. Fuels used as raw materials are not subject to the tax. Tax rates are based on both the energy and carbon contents of fuels.

Sweden: in 1991 Sweden enacted a carbon tax.

With Sweden raising prices on fossil fuels since enacting the carbon tax, it cut its carbon pollution by 9 per cent between 1990 and 2006.

India: a levy on coal producers was introduced in 2010. India expected to raise $535 million from the tax, the first measure used by the subcontinent to reduce companies’ use of fossil fuels.

Norway: in 1991 Norway introduced a tax on carbon. However its carbon emissions increased by 43m per cent per capita between 1991 and 2008.

Denmark: enacted in 1992, Denmark’s carbon tax applies to all energy users, which includes the industrial sector. But industrial companies are taxed differently depending on the process the energy is used for, and whether or not the company has entered into a voluntary agreement to apply energy efficiency measures.

Denmark’s per capita carbon dioxide emissions were nearly 15% lower in 2005 than in 1990.

Switzerland: a carbon incentive tax was introduced in Switzerland in 2008. It includes all fossil fuels, unless they are used for energy. Swiss companies can be exempt from the tax if they participate in the country’s emissions trading system.

Overall, greenhouse gas emissions in Switzerland remained stable between 1990 and 2007.

Ireland: a tax on oil and gas came into effect in 2010. It was estimated to add around €43 to filling a 1000 litre oil tank and €41 to the average annual gas bill.

Costa Rica: in 1997 Costa Rica enacted a tax on carbon pollution, set at 3.5 per cent of the market value of fossil fuels. The revenue raised from this goes into a national forest fund which pays indigenous communities for protecting the forests around them.

(Sources: Businessweek.com; carbontax.org; climatechange.gov.au; crikey.com; nytimes.com; presseurop.eu; guardian.co.uk; environment.fi; irishexaminer.com; irishtimes.com; bafu.admin.ch).

Not to mention China and India as well which not only are implementing taxes and incetives but also are builing large wind and solar power stations

and how much has that saved the environment??????????

Originally Posted by kaa45

and how much has that saved the environment??????????