Banned the wearing of hoodies

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Originally Posted by CraigE

OK the issue has been raised of private property. Well most shop owners do not own the property. That aside it is a property that is open to the public and has unfettered public access. Unless an offence is committed this could be taken as discrimination which is illegal. To restrict access there must be a barrier to stop access. A bit like your home you must provide passage to your front door and you can not hinder someone on lawful business access to your door.

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The malls are all owned by someone, likely Westfield and like restrictions on riding bicycles, skateboards, pets, etc., the mall owner has a right to prohibit anything they choose and it doesn't require barriers or anything other than a sign. If the sign is there and you obey you have a right of access, however if you choose to disobey you are tresspassing and security guards have the empowerment to require you to comply or to remove you from the private property.

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Originally Posted by CraigE

.... That aside it is a property that is open to the public and has unfettered public access. ....To restrict access there must be a barrier to stop access.

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Actually access is suitably fettered. There is usually a large doorway. Typically with glass sliding doors controlled by proximity sensors. These doors are usually tightly closed during the period outside "business" hours. there is always a sign indicating what those hours of operation are. Right there by the door.

So, should you (public person) be wandering these premises at, let's say for example, 3am, I am sure the responsible security folk would see that as a breach of the rules and apprehend and/or remove you with as much enthusiasm as was necessary. They might also consider further legal prosecution as there are things known as laws which even the general public are subject to in public areas. It wouldn't even matter if the door was open. You shouldn't be there. Certainly some very pointed questions may be asked as to your intentions whilst on the premises. Shopping perhaps? Perhaps not, since all of the shops would be closed.

I suspect you might likewise take a dim view of someone accessing your home, even if they were known to you, during the night since this is considered outside of the social norm.

As for my home, I am only bound to allow access to the property for legally conducted business. I can stop anyone not deemed to be doing so at the boundary I don't have to let them get to the front door. Should they be there on legitimate business I can not prevent them access to the entrance of my house.

Regrettably most things in life are neither black nor white, just various shades of gray. It is the legal system which attempts to turn them into one or the other.

Them's the rules.

Cheers,
Iain

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Originally Posted by Hymie

... Thongs, Jandals, Flip Flops call them whet you will they are a tripping hazzard, get them out of shopping centres, ...

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My local Bunning tried to stop me going into thier store with thongs on. I asked them why, and they told me they were not appropriate footwear for the store. I pointed out that 2 woman walking past us into the store were wearing open toes slip on shoes, and they should be stopped as well. They let me in, and I went and complained - I was then told thongs were fine, but not bare feet - I told them they need to train thier staff better in how to recongnise people that were not wearing any shoes...:p

But the way things are going, soon we will have to have steel capped shoes & a hi vis vest on to go in there...

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Originally Posted by RangieBit

Actually access is suitably fettered. ...
<snip> ...

Them's the rules.

Cheers,
Iain

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Just to back Iain up on this one, even publically owned property can restrict or prevent entry to the public. It is usually called enclosed public land, and whichever holder of that public land is able to limit and restrict access to that land by a number if instruments, with or without significant "fettering".

• Public schools, it is an offence for an individual to be on the premises without reason. Would you like Joe Paedophile roaming your kid's primary school?
• National Parks, how many now have gates and closed access? No pets or firearms, and that includes crossing a boundary from private land where there is no fence.
• Prisons.
• Defence establishments.
• Government buildings.

These are all owned by the public (including by Joe Paedophile) but have all sorts of access restrictions or barring.

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Originally Posted by bacicat2000

My local Bunning tried to stop me going into thier store with thongs on. I asked them why, and they told me they were not appropriate footwear for the store. I pointed out that 2 woman walking past us into the store were wearing open toes slip on shoes, and they should be stopped as well. They let me in, and I went and complained - I was then told thongs were fine, but not bare feet - I told them they need to train thier staff better in how to recongnise people that were not wearing any shoes...:p

But the way things are going, soon we will have to have steel capped shoes & a hi vis vest on to go in there...

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Well it is a warehouse. Where forklifts are active 24 hours a day. Most other warehouses don't allow public entry.

they have to get children to take down their hoodies otherwise you cant tell if its a child or a midget on a crime spree. :wasntme:

G'day blue_mini :)

But Bunnings trades as a retail and tradesman's store so therefore is likened to be a retail store similar to Harvey Norman outlets


cheers

remember when gents use to take thier hats off when entering a building , the good old days when men had respect for others

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Originally Posted by richard4u2

remember when gents use to take thier hats off when entering a building , the good old days when men had respect for others

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Pfft, its just a hat, I remember when I used to do electrical maintenance in the local RSL's, "sir please remove your hat"...."why"......"sign of respect of wartime veterans"......"nah, I'm merely here to fix your lights, not show my respest by playing the pokies:D"

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

The malls are all owned by someone, likely Westfield and like restrictions on riding bicycles, skateboards, pets, etc., the mall owner has a right to prohibit anything they choose and it doesn't require barriers or anything other than a sign. If the sign is there and you obey you have a right of access, however if you choose to disobey you are tresspassing and security guards have the empowerment to require you to comply or to remove you from the private property.

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Actually they do not have the power to remove or restrain you at all you. Have been down that path with security personnel that did think they had the power both personally and professionally and actually had the police want to charge a security person for doing just that. Only a Police officer or a duly licensed security guard does and the majority of security guards do not have this power or license.
The majority of so called compliance signs are in fact non compliant and have very little legal standing. You can not refuse someone service under Australian law on the grounds of their attire and at present it is not an offence to wear a hoodie.
Be careful using the word trespass, it is widely misused, the correct term is being unlawfully on premises, which in general is for being on a premises outside of opening hours and generally you will find the DPP will not pursue a charge like this in a public thoroughfare such as a shopping centre when open, the best they will generally pusue is being a public nuisance. You could be issued a move on order at this point if you have been creating a disturbance.
Wearing a hoodie is not a legitimate reason to deny access and infringes on civil liberties and is also blatant discrimination and should be upheld in a court. Try it on a Muslim and watch the legal proceedings unfold.
What next tell cancer victims they cant wear a wig.