"blue" headlights-illegal?

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Originally Posted by BMKal

....Simple physics will tell you - light travels in a straight line, and when it meets a reflector, the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection - regardless of the light source.

So ............ provided that both light sources are placed in the same position relative to the reflector, the "refector pattern" as you call it cannot possibly be any different.

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Might be an idea to go back to that link to Stern's lighting and read it through a few times... You'll see where your comments are perfectly logical....and wrong in real life.

Summary: Filament globes and HID arcs may look to be the same.. but they are NOT. The distribution of light along the filament/arc IS differant.. - And being brighter... means the previous but not-so-obvious compromises in lens/reflector design, now become glaringly apparant. Pun intended.

At the end of the day, the deciding factor is how much you dazzle an oncoming driver. - He may be the moth-brain who can't resist turning towards the Light...

Another overlooked detail. Even perfectly & properly adjusted (bright, HID) headlights on low beam can dangerously blind others if the road is wet...and a virtual mirror.

ALL the carefully dipped Low beam is reflected up and into their eyes.... hopefully not mine when I'm driving a 16 or 21 tonne bus. With a bull-bar. - I don't think much of your chances in a tinny little 3 tonne can.

Cheers,
James the Luddite

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Originally Posted by LOVEMYRANGIE

That's true, however the problem is that the filament placement in a H4 or H7 globe compared to the location of the arc in a lot of the cheapass Chinese fleabay junk is quite different. This generates different angles in the reflector causing a lot more stray light and is the cause of a lot of the complaints people have about HID unfortunately.



Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

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Yep - agreed. The biggest problem is definitely where the light source (especially a significantly brighter one) originates from a different position relative to the reflector. Then it is obvious that the light will be reflected in a different pattern.

Most of the better quality HID globes these days however, have addressed this. In the case of a H4 replacement, the HID light source "arc" is as near as dammit to the position of the filaments in a standard halogen H4 globe.

In the case of the hi/lo beam halogen globes, there are actually two light sources (filaments). The low beam filament sits above a "shutter" which prevents light from the filament reflecting onto the bottom half of the headlight reflector. The bulk of the light from this source (filament) is directed toward the top half of the headlight reflector, and from there is reflected downwards - producing low beam light pattern. The high beam filament sits clear of this "shutter" and when illuminated, light emitting from the hi beam filament can pass to the entire diameter of the headlight's reflector, thereby producing hi beam light pattern.

The HID globes that I have in the Disco have a single light source or "arc". The way that hi and low beam patterns are achieved is that the HID globe moves in or out in the headlight housing to position the light source either above the "shutter" which directs the light to the upper half of the headlight reflector (lo beam) or clear of the shutter so that the light can pass to the entire diameter of the headlight reflector (hi beam). The "shutter" is external to the HID globe and remains stationary. I have checked, and the positions of the light source when in both the hi and lo beam are exactly the same as in the case of a standard H4 halogen globe, relative both to the headlight reflector and to the position of the "shutter".

If I was not confident that the installation in my vehicle was not causing problems for oncoming traffic, I would have removed them long before now - I don't like being "flashed" by oncoming traffic, and I think I've been around for long enough now to have some basic level of responsibility towards other road users.

Yes - I can certainly understand those who get upset with incorrectly installed, adjusted or maintained lights - I'm no different. But I've been around for long enough to know (from experience) that you will see far more problems coming from halogen lights poorly adjusted or maintained than you will ever see with HID (at least until HID becomes more widely used - which it will). I'm sorry, but I don't give much credibility to people who simply want all HID (or any other new technology) banned because they've had a couple of bad experiences with poorly installed or maintained lights. Fortunately, the majority don't follow this mentality, or we'd all still be driving horse & carts with candle powered lighting and an escort person walking in front of us. :p

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Originally Posted by superquag

At the end of the day, the deciding factor is how much you dazzle an oncoming driver. - He may be the moth-brain who can't resist turning towards the Light...

Another overlooked detail. Even perfectly & properly adjusted (bright, HID) headlights on low beam can dangerously blind others if the road is wet...and a virtual mirror.

ALL the carefully dipped Low beam is reflected up and into their eyes.... hopefully not mine when I'm driving a 16 or 21 tonne bus. With a bull-bar. - I don't think much of your chances in a tinny little 3 tonne can.

Cheers,
James the Luddite

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Funny that .............. I drive between Perth & Kalgoorlie fairly frequently, often at night, and in a variety of weather conditions. I think there's a little more to worry about on that road than the odd little metropolitan bus. I also drive around both Perth and Kalgoorlie at night.

I have also driven road trains and 100 tonne floats on the same road many times, so think that I've got a little bit of "road sense" and consideration for others.

As I've previously said, if I believed that my lights were causing a problem to oncoming traffic, I'd have done something about it well before now. Surely if they were annoying - SOMEBODY would have "flashed" me by now - strange that it never happens. Even stranger still that truckies who I have spoken to on the radio have told me that the lights are not annoying to them.

And if "even perfectly & properly adjusted (bright, HID) headlights on low beam can dangerously blind others if the road is wet...and a virtual mirror. ALL the carefully dipped Low beam is reflected up and into their eyes.... " is true - then surely it is logical that HID should be banned on low beam on ALL vehicles - including NEW euro imports like Benz, BMW, Landrover etc. After all, these vehicles with HID fitted from factory also have "perfectly & properly adjusted (bright, HID) headlights on low beam" - what's the difference ?

I got the genuine Philips H7 HID kit in the D2a and haven't had a complaint.
It all comes down to you get what you pay for, put up or shut up and there will always be whingers! :p


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

Well, fellas, there has been a great response with a lot of info, thanks, but the initial question was, are they legal? The fact is a driver here was threatened with a $200 fine and loss of 3 demerit points, I know, I can walk in to my local Polce Station and ask, just thought someone here would know.Thanks for the great replies, Bob

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Originally Posted by bob10

Well, fellas, there has been a great response with a lot of info, thanks, but the initial question was, are they legal? The fact is a driver here was threatened with a $200 fine and loss of 3 demerit points, I know, I can walk in to my local Polce Station and ask, just thought someone here would know.Thanks for the great replies, Bob

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Oddly enough, I don't think there has been a single reply from a police officer to this thread.

Blue lights are not legal, call the RTA to find out.
Lights beyond a certain K rating are not legal either pretty sure it is 8000k.
When driving interstate i notice many cars with poorly adjusted headlights.
I notice that even though trucks have their lights higher than most cars very rarely are you blinded by them. Obviously the rego inspections are more demanding for heavy vehicles.

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Originally Posted by bob10

Well, fellas, there has been a great response with a lot of info, thanks, but the initial question was, are they legal? The fact is a driver here was threatened with a $200 fine and loss of 3 demerit points, I know, I can walk in to my local Polce Station and ask, just thought someone here would know.Thanks for the great replies, Bob

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what part of, if they are blue, they aren't, is it you don't get? :D

We went down this track a while ago regarding blue lenses on lights, same answers

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-ch...ml#post1358883



Martyn

I have QI bulbs in my Landrovers and I am fussy enough to keep the low beam cutoff adjusted well down below the point my lights stay below the eye line of oncoming vehicles, even when carrying a load in the tail .

When traveling on wet dirt roads, your headlights do get splash back onto them, this grime does cause the headlights to flare and upset oncoming traffic, even after your lights are set properly.

A driver reviver and a quick wipe of your lights at the same time, is all it needs to stay safe under those conditions.

Until HID bulbs with correctly matched lenses and reflectors, are available and have approval from the appropriate authorities, I am happy to stay with the equipment I have at the present.

Cheers Arthur