Thread: They're at it again - Anti-modification laws

Originally Posted by DT-P38

+1

not that I know Stevo from a bar of soap (or is he that funny looking bald headed bloke that sells gps for them?), its just that anyone consistently rejecting another's opinion and/or experience is dangerously close to unbalanced.

Anyway, as with the existing laws if your 4WD is set up properly you should have nothing to fear... Most fuzz will not be trained or skilled enough to measure a vehicle properly and determine who is over the line... As is the case today.

We should all be more worried about the long term effects the carbon tax is going to have on our (generally) gas guzzling vehicles. We wont be able to afford the fuel and tax bills they are gonna be making us pay in the near future.

Why aren't 4WDA onto that? Cause they can't make any $'s out of it. They just continue to promote "rip it up" and "bigger is better" because it fits their market (and marketing) and sells mag's.

Good luck to you and them, you both make me smile!

Agree with the rest of the post...now to the bolded part. I'm sorry...where I am "consistently" rejecting another's opinion?? Who is this "another" you speak of? Your right...you don't know me from a bar of soap...tackle the issue or the commentary. If you meet me and you think I am a bell end...knock your socks off.

Secondly....since when it is unbalanced to have an opposing view? Aren't you with you +1 doing the very same thing? **** me....our country is governed by consistently and opposing views every day. Some views deserved to be slammed as most folk shoot from the hip pocket with nary an ounce of thought. You've attempted to slam me by calling me a tool. Not sure where I have resorted to name calling....yet seems I'm carrying the ire for calling a spade a spade....oh yeah and the slapping. I did mention woodies as well . As I said tackle my opinion.......me being blunt is who I am...don't expect to be loved by all and sundry...hey Ronny .

**** me....it's just like SWMBO in an argument... you do something wrong for the first time and all you hear is "You do that all the time" I respond..."Well list those occasion's".....umm......errrr.........Man 1 .

DB.....ok....you called me on it.........and your right.....am I that see through . Wait till I get my rear bar...will be able to post us some sexy from behind shots. Yes...Smokey is nice...but I have seen pics of yours as well...just as good.

Regards

Stevo

been there....

got pulled over into one of those random vehicle inspection checks in big red because it was "lifted too high" after measuring the top of the roof and comparing it to the specified height in the hand book I was 2mm under the spec height..

inspector refused to acknowledge the point that if I was under the spec height it couldnt have been lifted because "Theres too much wheel space in the wheel arch, It must be lifted the height you gave me must be for the factory fitted roof racks that you've removed" It just went all to pot after I showed him that height...

had to create a hell of a baloo to get one of the cops over to see the logic....
but I got off with nothing from it.


Im not sure if VSI50 or vsscs is going to make situations like that any better.

Originally Posted by wagoo

In DTP38s post he wrote that most ''Fuzz Will NOT'' be trained.

But anyway. I don't know the rules in the West but in Victoria, when I disagreed with a policemans assessment about the legality of my modifications, I insisted that a qualified member of the force be sent out to where I was pulled over to argue the points of contention. I had to wait about 1 hour before the officer turned up and he didn't fault my argument, but Cops being Cops he did ping me on a scratched windscreen,faded park and indicator lenses and the old cheese cutter Army bull bar.So you can never really win against authority.
Wagoo.

My mate was a blue slip inspector and spent a huge amount of time clearing canaries that should have never been issued.

Here is the next email from 4WD action:

Fellow 4WDers,

It is time to act on the anti-modification laws that are currently being proposed by the RTA. We need to let our government know that we as 4WDers do not agree with having our freedom restricted. Click below to watch my video message filmed last night from location in the Glasshouse mountains. We need to stand together on this one guys - don't delay sending your email to the minister because we need everybody to act if we want to stop these ridiculous laws coming into effect.









You may remember that last year 4WD Action conducted an interview with Andrew Stoner, who at the time was the shadow roads minister – This is what the government promised us before they were elected. We need to ensure they keep their word.





Anti-modification laws are back, and once again they will seriously impact and restrict 4WDing as we know it if we do nothing and let these laws through.

We need to email the NSW roads minister, Duncan Gay (office@gay.minister.nsw.gov.au) and the Deputy Premier Andrew Stoner (office@deputypremier.nsw.gov.au) to show that we are angered by the RTA and their proposal for VSI 50. We have drafted an email that can quickly and easily be sent from everyone.



If we want to make a difference and protect 4WDing in NSW and Australia, then we need to act together and act now. Don’t delay sending your email of protest and make sure you pass this on to everybody, as each and every email will count. One thing that we have learned when tackling an issue like this is that the government only listens to the number of votes they stand to lose.

We need to fight this together and not let decisions that affect all 4WDers be made by ill-informed public servants and bureaucrats.

This is our time to stand up for what we believe in and not let the RTA dictate to us the future of 4WDing.

WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED BY THE RTA

Lifts up to 50mm can be self-certified.

Lifts over 75mm (which include tyre diameter (not radius) increase of a maximum of 50mm and maximum suspension raise of 50mm) will require assessment and certification by an engineering signatory. However, raised 4WDs more than a total of 75mm may have conditions imposed on their registration in NSW that restricts their use on roads and road-related areas.




EXEMPTIONS TO RESTRICTED REGISTRATION

4WD vehicles may raise vehicles up to 100mm (maximum 75mm suspension increase and 50mm increase in tyre diameter size – 25mm height increase) only if you are a member of a 4WD club affiliated with Four Wheel Drive NSW & ACT Inc or the National Four Wheel Drive Council and have completed a driver training course.

Anything over 150mm will not be able to be registered for use on the roads and road-related areas.

WHY WE DON’T SUPPORT VSI 50

We believe there should be some regulations imposed on vehicle modifications to ensure that only safe vehicles be allowed on our roads. Like we have always said, we support and promote safe, practical and responsible 4WDs and 4WDing. However, we do not support VSI 50 in its current form.


- Being a member of an affiliated club with the Four Wheel Drive NSW & ACT Inc or the National Four Wheel Drive Council and completing a driver training course should not entitle you to a bigger suspension lift. This driver training certification does nothing to ensure 4WDers can handle a modified 4WD better on our roads. While we have nothing against clubs or their members, we can't help but feel that that the Four Wheel Drive NSW & ACT Inc and the National Four Wheel Drive Council have sold out 4WDers for their own personal gain.

- 4WDers should be able to run tyres bigger than 50mm diameter increase if they are deemed safe by a professional automotive engineer.

- We agree with limiting all height increases to 150mm without exception for road use.

VEHICLE SAFETY

4WD Action supports and promotes safe, practical and responsible 4WDs and 4WDing. What the RTA proposes to do is to reintroduce VSI 50 and remove the recognised engineering certification scheme and replace it with a drive-through mechanics scheme. This simply means that any certified IV mechanic who fills out an expression of interest paper with the RTA and attends a short interview can certify modified vehicles. Of course, license certifiers will only be able to certify up to a maximum of 150mm, however the vehicle will have conditions imposed on its registration in NSW.

The RTA does not convince us via their proposal of VSI 50 and the Vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Scheme (VSCCS) that they have pedestrian or road safety as their primary objective. If they did, the RTA would have consulted more stakeholders in the 4WD industry (instead of the spare-part industry and selected 4WD association members), and would have done extensive vehicle testing and consulted automotive engineers.

Why does the RTA want to remove qualified automotive engineers with many years of experience and open the gates to vehicle certification? In doing so, the RTA will not make modified vehicles safer on the road and this will not be in the best interests of public safety. Insurance companies will also find it harder to offer vehicle insurance for 4WDs and increase premiums as the proposed certification scheme is open to more risk.

Why haven’t professional automotive engineers been consulted by the RTA or government? It seems as if the RTA is trying to rush this through secretively without consulting all stakeholders.

Does the government and the RTA realise they will essentially put many automotive engineers in NSW out of a job, hurt the aftermarket industry and further restrict and penalise responsible 4WDers, not to mention make it more expensive for them in the process?

Sam

Of course, the subject I have yet to see any data on, is the documented extent of accidents directly attributable to modifications that this is proposed to restrict.

John

For those who gaze wistfully at the seemingly unrestricted vehicle modifications in the USA, VSI 50 is a whole lot less restrictive than the laws in Colorado viz:
Colorado Lift Laws | Vehicle Modification Rules
refer to the entry on suspension.

Jawja and Massachusetts have 2" maximum lift, while New Jersey has an engineering scheme much like NSW. Some states have 4", 5" or 6" maximum lift. Of course the majority are totally unrestricted.

Originally Posted by series3

- Being a member of an affiliated club with the Four Wheel Drive NSW & ACT Inc or the National Four Wheel Drive Council and completing a driver training course should not entitle you to a bigger suspension lift. This driver training certification does nothing to ensure 4WDers can handle a modified 4WD better on our roads. While we have nothing against clubs or their members, we can't help but feel that that the Four Wheel Drive NSW & ACT Inc and the National Four Wheel Drive Council have sold out 4WDers for their own personal gain.

- 4WDers should be able to run tyres bigger than 50mm diameter increase if they are deemed safe by a professional automotive engineer.

- We agree with limiting all height increases to 150mm without exception for road use.

This all sounds much fairer to me, 6in total lift is more then enough even for the hard core off roaders, i also dont see why tyre size increase over 50mm shouldnt be allowed, some would disagree, but the main factor people argue is the reduced braking caused by larger tyres - but take the Disco vs 110 for example, they are almost identical brake/diff wise yet the d1 will have a max size of 31s, yet the 110 will be able to run 34(going off the standard size not including 9.0x16s) how is that fair? My d1 on 34s brakes just as well if not better then my 110 with the same size tyre, infact i run a d1 booster as an UPGRADE over the stock 110 item.

These generalised laws dont seem to make sense in a lot of cases, where as if its left up to a qualified engineer to deem if its safe atleast they are looked at on an individual basis, not just falling in to the category "illegal" because the tyres are 52mm over standard.

Also i fail to see how being a member of a club and doing an offroad training course is going to make you more qualified to drive your modified 4wd on road??

Yep shouldn't bother me, every rover I own is 99% got 120 rims on my 110 and early sreel disco wheels on my 1999 disco, defender rims on my series 3 exarny 6 I have found a standard vehicle is reliable even if I have all the wheels mixed up.

about those silly high lifted rice burners are probably ok for perving in traffic but I wouldn't want to go around a corner in one.