They're at it again - Anti-modification laws

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Originally Posted by clubagreenie

Not that I'm one to go out on a limb but Stevo you're a tool.

I/most of us started out on 7.750/16's, even the toyos on split rims. You could get them everywhere, easy to change, just a staple tyre. Then they designed something called a sunraysia, and then you "needed" for some reason big wide fat "floatation" (the term at the time) tyres to drive on sand. Then ruts started appearing, I remember the difference between Fraser Is from '79 to '81, and the Simpson/Inaminka/Birsdville/Strezlecki tracks back in the same eras. Then 31's appeared and we needed 15's to fit (again why? 'cause they started at that size). And from there as each tyre size dug out tracks more and more tyres got larger and larger.

My question, if tyres ARE NOT the cause of the ruts, why are tyres the only things that are changing in this equation. Tyres get larger then next year we need bigger tyres, lather, rinse, repeat.

If it was rainfall/runoff then we'd all have been on the portal bandwagon and we'd still have 31's and portals.

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Justin

Unfortunately you left out one important part of the equation.The main reason the ruts became worse was not the changing tyre size,it was the increasing popularity of 4wd's,and the amount of vehicles that were now using the tracks you refer to,and the people that were begining to use 4wders went from people that were real enthusiasts(you had to be as they were very utilitarian in those days)or people using them in their line of work,to the average family,who had no idea what they were doing,and just blundered along,learning by their mistakes a lot of the time.Like anything,where you get overuse you get wear and tear.You might need to think about the fact that larger wider tyres actually disperse the vehicle weight more evenly to the ground because of the bigger footprint allowing less lbs per sq in applied to the ground (or Kg per sq cm) thus causing less impact.

Wayne

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Originally Posted by stevo68

Bolded part........are you ****ing kidding me. Are you sure your not a sarong wearing greenie? If you made that comment around a campfire I was at....I would slap you stupid. Then I would hand you to the line behind me.....what an insulting comment to fellow 4WDers. You certainly are not one,

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Typical Stevo comment. Always with the violence.

I know Roger (Xtreme) and I know he's done a lot more 4WDing (both recreationally and in his former life) than many people on here .

I see nothing wrong with the proposals but then I'm not interested in much bigger tyres nor large lifts.

Am I the ONLY person whose ACTUALLY read the bloody document?

IT gives you scope for normal REASONABLE mods and if you want to go to "This Is gunna Look GREAT in the carpark" type mods you have to have them Engineer Approved....


yes yes yes whah whah whinge bleat moan...

Have you read the current ADR's? have you noticed that the only people really whinging about this new legistlation are those that already have mods fitted that are not ADR compliant?

have you read some of the other things that are coming in?

like say This one

Which if you read it and then do some follow up questions to the RTA you'll find out it makes it a lot easier to become certified to do mods on a vehicle WITHOUT having to be an engineer... (hell for some things I already meet the minimum requirements to become certified for but I don't have a business or the insurance)

so when you do your 3 inch lift (which if unengineered is ALREADY illegal) with your tyres that a 2.2 inches rounder (again already illegal) you simply take it to the shop that does suspension mods then to the shop that does tyre mods and have it made legal then when you have a prang and maim your loved ones (or your litigatious friends who will love having their insurance company SUE the ass off of you) your insurance company has one less option of opting out of paying for your cock up. AND because you will no longer have to goto ONE engineer to get EVERYTHING complianced at once smart shoppers will go and get their mods done at a shop that can not only install the mods but certify it as well..

Gee thats such an inconvenience...

But Wait, THERES more this thing runs both ways, thats right ladies and gentlemen we're not only going to pick on the people that go up we're going to get the ones that go down too....

Hands up how many of you have been stuck behind a Ricer boys low ride thats hung up on a speed bump or takes 10 mintues to execute a turn off of a driveways kerbing because its so low it cant make it without careful line picking. have any of you been stuck behind an ipswich (pick your nearest local idiot bogan suburb) special thats been dropped so low that when the tyre blew the body work is on the ground so A the car is completely immobile in the middle of the road and B cant have a jack put under it to change it?


go and become conversant with the ADR's and find out how little this legislative change will actually impact you.

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Originally Posted by ScottW

Ever heard of the boiling frog analagy? This round may not affect you personally, but once the govt. starts, they never stop at only one step and there is a good chance other changes will.

If no-one really objects to the first round of changes because "It won't affect me" then the govt will think they can just slide the next lot of changes through as well without issue. So even if these changes don't affect you, it's in your best intrests as a 4x4 enthusiast and bush camper to let them know you aren't happy.

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

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I disagree. People that arent prepared to compromise generally end up losing everything. If the 4wd community simply reject every limitation ever proposed (even reasonable ones) then they will stop being listened to and lose everything. I see absolutley nothing wrong with limiting road registered vehicles to 75mm lift and I see nothing wrong with tyre and wheel limitations in line with manufacturers' tolerances.

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Originally Posted by Yorkie

the idea of this ruling is to stop the unengineered (and potentially unsafe) 4wd from running on the road. why is that such a bad thing?

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So what you are saying is that there are already illegal vehicles on the road. And in order to get these illegal vehicles off the road they need to change the law and make them even more illegal, as well as turning a group of currently legal cars into illegal cars.

Sounds like a typical government solution. Penalise those doing the right thing because those doing the wrong thing don't care and won't stop.

Enforcing the existing laws would solve a lot of the existing problems.

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Originally Posted by wouldbeowner

I see absolutley nothing wrong with limiting road registered vehicles to 75mm lift and I see nothing wrong with tyre and wheel limitations in line with manufacturers' tolerances.

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Car manucafturers do everything to a price point. XA to XC falcon coupes have room in the back end to fit HUGE wide tyres. The were fitted with the equivelent of 195's. Are you saying that no one should fit a tyre sized any different?

My County is stock except for 33 inch tyres, which everyone seems to agree is what landrover should have put on them in the first place. These are outside the manufacturers' tolerances and hence by your view not acceptable.

Yes there needs to be a leeway. Yes it needs to be dictated by someone competent. Yes it actually needs to be enforced.

Unfortunately I think the 'yahoo, bogan, no consequences, not my problem' attitude that had been embraced by a minority of Australians is ruining it for the rest.

Oh mmeeoowwww some of you....Ron....what a stupid comment...typical response from Stevo with violence. Feel free to hunt down all my responses with violence and post them for all to see. Clubagreenie......a tool......c'mon...been called worse than that ;). For the first time feel like I am surrounded by a bunch of old fuddy duddies :p.

Right.........now I'm not going to apologise when someone slam's many of my mates who drive modified vehicles as Extreme did. Some of the best driving I have seen is by those mates in those vehicles. Terrain that most of us would poo our pants at the thought.

The old..."back in my day" with skinnies etc.........or the "I've done this track/trip with just yadda yadda" is irrelevant. Some of the iconic trips around are being done in AWD's for goodness sakes. So for the average trip/track...your generic 4by will do it. As noted where I have seen these monsters crawl up....the average 4by has spluttered and scraped to get up the same spots.

Yet we say the larger trucks cause all these problems. FFS...mother nature causes more track damage than any 4byb ever could. As an avid 4wder I love doing trips but also tackling much harder terrain..terrain that on occasion makes me almost poo my pants and really gets the adrenalin going. Already with 265/75's on my D2....is illegal......as with most other D2's. Look at this pic...does it look illegal to you?? Does that look like a monster truck to anyone??

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/09/718.jpg

Bottom line for me.....is whether you are a dirt tourer or a crazy mountain climbing freak............your all 4wders to me...regardless of make, magazine etc....hence should stick together...in my book. So...yes...when I read a comment having a go at other 4WDer's....I'll defend. As for the rules......and thanks to BK for the info.......they are still rules looking to be implemented and if so.......like law...is setting a precedent. What will be next??

Regards

Stevo

When we talk about fitting larger diameter tyres, who talks about fitting larger or more efficient brakes?

When you fit a larger tyre, the moment on the brakes increases so braking is less efficient isn't it?

Surely in our nanny state wrap the populace up in cotton wool nation, the Government has a right to similarly legislate about stupid modifications, otherwise we will be getting supercharged V8 Suzuki Jimmys fitted with 6" spring over lifts and 38" tyres on standard brakes.

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Originally Posted by stevo68

For the first time feel like I am surrounded by a bunch of old fuddy duddies :p.

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send josh out of the room!

PS
they are all thinking literally instead of laterally stevo!

we, that know you, all know you wouldn't hurt a fly.... :angel:

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Originally Posted by stevo68

Already with 265/75's on my D2....is illegal......as with most other D2's. Look at this pic...does it look illegal to you?? Does that look like a monster truck to anyone??

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so what does it matter if the rules are changed with people, like you yourself admit to, already running around illegally. :angel:
out of interest what are the rules in qld for 35inch, or indeed any increase size, tyres being registered legally?.

as mentioned by diana people add the lifts, increase the tyre size then forget or ignore that the brakes and steering original equipment are not always upto the task. these are rules to assist in minimising risk to other road users but to also show that the 4wd'er is being responsable in their hobby.
from what i read this would be brought in with 6mth lead time so allowing those wanting to get approved under the current system of engineering to be done.