They're at it again - Anti-modification laws

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15th September 2011, 09:19 AM
isuzutoo-eh

Quote:

Originally Posted by incisor

PS
they are all thinking literally instead of laterally stevo!

we, that know you, all know you wouldn't hurt a fly.... :angel:

Funny, I thought Roger's words what Steve got upset at and started threatening over, was said in jest. Maybe he shouldn't take things literally either?

EDIT: In QLD isn't the largest increase in wheel diameter over the placarded value 15mm? So having 50mm room for increase would be a whole lot less restrictive?
15th September 2011, 09:29 AM
Redback

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottW

So what you are saying is that there are already illegal vehicles on the road. And in order to get these illegal vehicles off the road they need to change the law and make them even more illegal, as well as turning a group of currently legal cars into illegal cars.

Sounds like a typical government solution. Penalise those doing the right thing because those doing the wrong thing don't care and won't stop.

Enforcing the existing laws would solve a lot of the existing problems.

The current laws only allow 50mm suspension lift and 15mm over size on tyres without an engineers cert, the new laws allow 50mm suspension lift and 25mm oversize on tyres without an engineers cert, so what's the problem:cool:

Baz.
15th September 2011, 09:30 AM
stevo68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkie

so what does it matter if the rules are changed with people, like you yourself admit to, already running around illegally. :angel:
out of interest what are the rules in qld for 35inch, or indeed any increase size, tyres being registered legally?.

as mentioned by diana people add the lifts, increase the tyre size then forget or ignore that the brakes and steering original equipment are not always upto the task. these are rules to assist in minimising risk to other road users but to also show that the 4wd'er is being responsable in their hobby.
from what i read this would be brought in with 6mth lead time so allowing those wanting to get approved under the current system of engineering to be done.

Illegal by mere millimetres.......the point is to have rules etc that have actual input from the people the rules will apply to. Like many things...these rules are aimed at the minority...yet the majority is tarred. I find most people who for example run 35's...it is not a daily driver but a weekend play toy. What would be interesting data is any data that suggests that 4wd's with bigger tyres etc are causing more accidents on the road? I'm guessing there would be little evidence and more of case of some pill head making up rules to justify their job as opposed to a real problem being addressed.

Regards

Stevo
15th September 2011, 09:32 AM
popemobile

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

When we talk about fitting larger diameter tyres, who talks about fitting larger or more efficient brakes?

When you fit a larger tyre, the moment on the brakes increases so braking is less efficient isn't it?

Surely in our nanny state wrap the populace up in cotton wool nation, the Government has a right to similarly legislate about stupid modifications, otherwise we will be getting supercharged V8 Suzuki Jimmys fitted with 6" spring over lifts and 38" tyres on standard brakes.

I always look at what I can do for better brakes with bigger tyres, green stuff pads and brand new front callipers is the first stage of my 36inch tyre upgrade, I dont feel its quite enough as I feel i need to moderate my driving style to suit the current limits. Having said that a single high speed(well for a landy) stop seems pretty good, and there is no fade test to pass engineering up here!!??

Also, does anyone look at increasing track between stub axles and between kin pins, as this returns your stability without loading these component any more than the simple tyre radius increase like offesetting the wheels excessively does.

Its easy to gain 20mm in the rear, front was slightly trickier.
15th September 2011, 09:35 AM
ScottW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkie

out of interest what are the rules in qld for 35inch, or indeed any increase size, tyres being registered legally?.

No greater than 25mm (I think) increase or decrease from the stock diameter.
35's are illegal on pretty much everything unless they had them from the factory. Also 50mm increase in lift max.

Transport guys don't mind if you run 33's, but will ping you on the bigger stuff.

Cops can and will ping you on anything not stock.
15th September 2011, 09:42 AM
Redback

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo68

Illegal by mere millimetres.......the point is to have rules etc that have actual input from the people the rules will apply to. Like many things...these rules are aimed at the minority...yet the majority is tarred. I find most people who for example run 35's...it is not a daily driver but a weekend play toy. What would be interesting data is any data that suggests that 4wd's with bigger tyres etc are causing more accidents on the road? I'm guessing there would be little evidence and more of case of some pill head making up rules to justify their job as opposed to a real problem being addressed.

Regards

Stevo

How many is mere to you Stevo:o

29"inches to 31.6" that's 735.4mm to 803.9mm , 67.5mm of mere difference:D
15th September 2011, 09:45 AM
Redback

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottW

No greater than 25mm (I think) increase or decrease from the stock diameter.
35's are illegal on pretty much everything unless they had them from the factory. Also 50mm increase in lift max.

Transport guys don't mind if you run 33's, but will ping you on the bigger stuff.

Cops can and will ping you on anything not stock.

I think you'll find it's 15mm as it is in NSW.

BTW this only affects NSW at the moment, you guys do realise this.

Baz.
15th September 2011, 09:56 AM
popemobile

ban em all :)

My opinion,

I dont mind if they clamp down and make virtually all mods illegal, provided they let you get well engineered mods certified, then if you have a good engineer then all that you want to do is possible if you engineer it well.

I have 36inch tyres, but wanted to retain drivability.

IF i just bolted 36 inch tyres on the vehicle it WOULD NOT BE SAFE.
here is the list I did, and now it drives better than on 31s, with virtually NO draw backs, I have done many mods but heres the list that applies to the 36 inch tyres.

1. 25mm wider offset disco rims (legal change no engineer, ok not sposed to weld them but....)

2. Changed diff ratio (4.7 sals rear)

3. Complete fabricated front diff, engineered, extra castor(front sals 4.7)

4. Disco ratio 1.22 transfer change from 1.41 defender.

5. Custom front radius arms strengthened cranked pins

6. Custom lower rear arms strengthened and cranked pins

7. Widened axle housings.

8. Upgraded axles, flanges, and cvs.

9. Mildly upgraded brakes, more to come.

10. Custom air suspension, more to be done.

12. Upgraded steering links

11. Body clearance sorted for full articulation.

12. Terrafirma LT pin pin shocks front and rear, maybe not best valving for air suspension....

Without these mods, a stock defender would be unsuitable for 36s and should be pulled off the road, suitably built and engineered it is as safe as standard, so long as you dont fall when getting out :)

I actually think SOME (read minority) of the weekend drivers are the problem. They think big tyres and longer springs and 6 inches more air under the vehicle equals fun and more capable. I engineered mine to be a daily driver if I want, I do not endanger other road users by being on the road in a moded vehicle. A vehicle only suitable for weekend work should be trailered, for the safety of others.

NOW if you choose to only drive your moded forby on the weekends, Im always up for a play on the weekend, but if its not SAFE to drive day to day, it shouldnt have number plates on it.

I always mod my vehicles with this thought overriding all other goals.

How can I mod this vehicle to improve it in the area I want.....but NO drawbacks from the standard vehicle, while maintaining current safety or improving it

SOMETIMES this thinking sees me ignore the RULEZ:twisted:
15th September 2011, 09:57 AM
Yorkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo68

What would be interesting data is any data that suggests that 4wd's with bigger tyres etc are causing more accidents on the road? I'm guessing there would be little evidence and more of case of some pill head making up rules to justify their job as opposed to a real problem being addressed.

Regards

Stevo

that is part of the reason for the change in the rules, to allow for the collection of more data so that the rta can see what is happening out there in modified 4wd land. after a period of a couple of years they may modify the vsi50 again for better or worse but again discussions would be had with the representative bodies.
the nsw&act association have been in discussions with the rta for the past two years, there is a working committee of members from member clubs that have been working towards an agreement that will benefit the majority of members.
same as everything not everyone will be happy about the changes but one would hope the majority would be happy. those in the minority huge lifts and tyres would still have an avenue to drive these rigs but under stricter guidelines.
as mentioned this is nsw only, maybe find out what your state association is doing to lobby for better rules in your region.
15th September 2011, 10:06 AM
Redback

Quote:

Originally Posted by popemobile

My opinion,

I dont mind if they clamp down and make virtually all mods illegal, provided they let you get well engineered mods certified, then if you have a good engineer then all that you want to do is possible if you engineer it well.

I have 36inch tyres, but wanted to retain drivability.

IF i just bolted 36 inch tyres on the vehicle it WOULD NOT BE SAFE.
here is the list I did, and now it drives better than on 31s, with virtually NO draw backs, I have done many mods but heres the list that applies to the 36 inch tyres.

1. 25mm wider offset disco rims (legal change no engineer, ok not sposed to weld them but....)

2. Changed diff ratio (4.7 sals rear)

3. Complete fabricated front diff, engineered, extra castor(front sals 4.7)

4. Disco ratio 1.22 transfer change from 1.41 defender.

5. Custom front radius arms strengthened cranked pins

6. Custom lower rear arms strengthened and cranked pins

7. Widened axle housings.

8. Upgraded axles, flanges, and cvs.

9. Mildly upgraded brakes, more to come.

10. Custom air suspension, more to be done.

12. Upgraded steering links

11. Body clearance sorted for full articulation.

12. Terrafirma LT pin pin shocks front and rear, maybe not best valving for air suspension....

Without these mods, a stock defender would be unsuitable for 36s and should be pulled off the road, suitably built and engineered it is as safe as standard, so long as you dont fall when getting out :)

I actually think SOME (read minority) of the weekend drivers are the problem. They think big tyres and longer springs and 6 inches more air under the vehicle equals fun and more capable. I engineered mine to be a daily driver if I want, I do not endanger other road users by being on the road in a moded vehicle. A vehicle only suitable for weekend work should be trailered, for the safety of others.

NOW if you choose to only drive your moded forby on the weekends, Im always up for a play on the weekend, but if its not SAFE to drive day to day, it shouldnt have number plates on it.

I always mod my vehicles with this thought overriding all other goals.

How can I mod this vehicle to improve it in the area I want.....but NO drawbacks from the standard vehicle, while maintaining current safety or improving it

SOMETIMES this thinking sees me ignore the RULEZ:twisted:

I refer you to Liam's comment below in bold;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkie

that is part of the reason for the change in the rules, to allow for the collection of more data so that the rta can see what is happening out there in modified 4wd land. after a period of a couple of years they may modify the vsi50 again for better or worse but again discussions would be had with the representative bodies.
the nsw&act association have been in discussions with the rta for the past two years, there is a working committee of members from member clubs that have been working towards an agreement that will benefit the majority of members.
same as everything not everyone will be happy about the changes but one would hope the majority would be happy. those in the minority huge lifts and tyres would still have an avenue to drive these rigs but under stricter guidelines.
as mentioned this is nsw only, maybe find out what your state association is doing to lobby for better rules in your region.

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