fly in, fly out- negative report, true, or not?

Geeeez Pat, I don't know what you're talking about. Nobody gets truckloads of government money so they can buy an $800,000 house. Some people get some help in certain circumstances but that's just a small hill compared to the Everest of mining money in WA. Government money couldn't even begin to approach the sheer scale of mining dollars. Believe me, if we could sign up for some handouts, we would, but they're not that big a deal. To be fair, I have heard some dodgy stories, but not everyone is capable of what that minority can get up to.

The point is that if someone's doing FIFO then their money will end up somewhere, in particular not where they earn it. And that's in the south, where they fly back to.

I know real estate types have been foaming at the mouth for years over this. Some of them make sharks look like a knitting circle. You should see the hilarious ads for the big development in Karratha - "Buy now and make a zillion a week in rent!" - just because there's a housing shortage, and it seems there will magically continue to be one. Oh dear, we wouldn't want to just, you know, build lots more to meet the demand, would we?

And then there's Broome . . . don't get me started!!!!! :p

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Originally Posted by Davo

Yeah, it has. So instead of most people being able to afford something decent to live in, now you're forced into an economy that's catering for the bigger money. I haven't looked into the affordability index for Perth real estate but there's no way it's been a gentle climb! Of course, there are a lot of mugs out there, too, and I think a big part of the market has been driven by buyers getting in deeper than they would have many years ago, scrabbling for something before the prices go up again.

No doubt many industries have benefitted from the big boom, but once again, it's a two-speed economy, and some are winners and some are left behind. Not very healthy for the long term.

It sounds like the Chinese have been buying big in the iron ore side but I really have to start doing some proper research into this when I've got the time! But there's no doubt that a lot is changing quickly - where it will lead, I wonder.

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Hey Davo,
I know what you are saying and agree to a certain extent. FIFO has affected the market around Perth and down South a bit, but most of the FIFO workforce dont want to pay stupid prices either. The real estate boom is ridiculous, but is fueled by greedy sellers more than anything. ATM I am not FIFO, but probablly will be in the next couple of years and I can tell you I can not afford anything over about $400-450k max and that is pushing it.
Half the problem is our govt are subsidizing certain elements of our community as well. What irks me is so called refugees come in here and get a new flash house given to them at low rent that you and I would die for.
Then person x comes from Sydney, sells a POS 3 bed house for $1.6 million say and buys a luxury house here for $800k ($200k more than its worth) no arguments as they think it is cheap, then uses the left over to buy an investment property or two. There is immediate inflation on 3 houses. The Chinese, Indonesians, Indians, Americans and British come in and do the same and we have massive problems. And this is for real estate, farm land and businesses.
So I think largely it is not the FIFO workers as such. I think the FIFO issue contributes about as much as well off local business owners.
At least in Perth greater area real estate is still reasonably affordable. You can still buy a brand new house and land package for $300k, not many other places other than SA where you can do this and atm the market is stagnant so a bit of a buyers market, offer significantly less than advertised.
You may not get the exact location you want but life can be a compromise at times. We are sitting at my SILs place in Waikiki, 5 bed 2 bath, only 10 yo old house and they got this for just over $300k. Much much nicer than the POS rental we have in Newman that would sell for $900k.
Yes houses are over inflated but that is the market and there is not much either of us can do about it.
As for govt subsidies, well low and med income earners do get a lot of benefits we so called high income earners dont, just because we get off our arses and live and work in remote areas.
We get no family assistance, no rent assistance, no medicare card and we pay through the teeth for everything, so infact a person earning $110k in the NW may in reality only be as well off as someone earning $70k in the Perth area.

Well, don't forget that the idea is supposed to be that a refugee has been through war, starvation, etc., etc., and the idea is to give them a hand and that government programmes, it being the government after all, if they don't work perfectly then that's the best you're going to get! And we just don't take in enough refugees for it to make a huge difference. They're more visible but of course are well out-numbered by, (ahem), poms and such.

I'm still not convinced that mining money isn't the main problem since here we are with a massive boom that has pretty much coincided with a massive real estate boom. Also I just can't see there being quite enough newcomers to inflate prices that much, though there are certainly a lot of them and they would have an effect. (Really I should get of my bum and start looking at statistics!)

We have noticed the market seems to have slowed a bit so maybe things are getting a bit more realistic. It was pretty crazy a few years ago.

And I understand what you're saying about some mining incomes. There are plenty of crazy stories about high-earners that have to spend so much where they live that they don't wind up with much left! And then there's the guy I just heard about earning $1500 a day on a rig - of course, they have no money because they spend it all on private schools and toys and so on!

Interesting reading on here, with people providing their views on essentially, the influences and effects of economic change which we are subject to.

A friend of mine, who used to work in Fleet Street for a small company called Goldman Sachs where he used to do their 'futures' buying on stuff like gold and diamonds and, who was yesterday returning from the annual 'Diggers & Dealers' conference in Kalgoorlie, once related to me how the economy ...anywhere....works.

It works between the two polemic human emotions of.....fear and greed. What will you do if you are fearful? What will you do if you believe you can?

Yet to hear of a better and more fundamental explanation.

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Originally Posted by BBC

Interesting reading on here, with people providing their views on essentially, the influences and effects of economic change which we are subject to.

A friend of mine, who used to work in Fleet Street for a small company called Goldman Sachs where he used to do their 'futures' buying on stuff like gold and diamonds and, who was yesterday returning from the annual 'Diggers & Dealers' conference in Kalgoorlie, once related to me how the economy ...anywhere....works.

It works between the two polemic human emotions of.....fear and greed. What will you do if you are fearful? What will you do if you believe you can?

Yet to hear of a better and more fundamental explanation.

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Sadly, the best explanation so far. Bob

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Originally Posted by Davo

Well, don't forget that the idea is supposed to be that a refugee has been through war, starvation, etc., etc., and the idea is to give them a hand and that government programmes, it being the government after all, if they don't work perfectly then that's the best you're going to get! And we just don't take in enough refugees for it to make a huge difference. They're more visible but of course are well out-numbered by, (ahem), poms and such.

I'm still not convinced that mining money isn't the main problem since here we are with a massive boom that has pretty much coincided with a massive real estate boom. Also I just can't see there being quite enough newcomers to inflate prices that much, though there are certainly a lot of them and they would have an effect. (Really I should get of my bum and start looking at statistics!)

We have noticed the market seems to have slowed a bit so maybe things are getting a bit more realistic. It was pretty crazy a few years ago.

And I understand what you're saying about some mining incomes. There are plenty of crazy stories about high-earners that have to spend so much where they live that they don't wind up with much left! And then there's the guy I just heard about earning $1500 a day on a rig - of course, they have no money because they spend it all on private schools and toys and so on!

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Yeah great we bring in these so called refugees (what bull****) and give them a $400,000 home, a car, a house full of furniture and social security benefits for circumventing the system.
Yet my brother who has worked all his life, paid taxes and been a contributing member to Australia, falls on hard times and gets SFA.
Yeah I guess you are right we should give it to foreigners who dont give a rats about us or our country and when they start earning money send it OS and bring their extended anti social families out here. Dont even get me started on that.
:o:p

Oh yeah, poor things - they've only been run out of their homes and been shot at and tortured and starved and lived in tents for years and had their lives in limbo for the whole time, not knowing what will happen to them.

Look, I don't want to get way off topic but I'm talking about actual refugees here, not the inevitable cases of people rorting the system and rooting the country, which is something to get mad about.

We've got a friend who's a refugee from an African country and was only let in because of her qualifications, and then had to really fight to stay. Some of her stories are the hair-raising kind that make you realise how stupid you can be for complaining about the price of petrol or any little thing like that.

But yeah, I know what you mean when you talk about working for years and getting little out of it - and I think when I retire I'm up for about $25 a week from my super! That's why I read this whole thread because sometimes FIFO just looks so tempting . . .

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Originally Posted by Davo

Oh yeah, poor things - they've only been run out of their homes and been shot at and tortured and starved and lived in tents for years and had their lives in limbo for the whole time, not knowing what will happen to them.

Look, I don't want to get way off topic but I'm talking about actual refugees here, not the inevitable cases of people rorting the system and rooting the country, which is something to get mad about.

We've got a friend who's a refugee from an African country and was only let in because of her qualifications, and then had to really fight to stay. Some of her stories are the hair-raising kind that make you realise how stupid you can be for complaining about the price of petrol or any little thing like that.

But yeah, I know what you mean when you talk about working for years and getting little out of it - and I think when I retire I'm up for about $25 a week from my super! That's why I read this whole thread because sometimes FIFO just looks so tempting . . .

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Yeah, probablly not the best place to get into it, but IMHO most of the so called refugees we get are not true refugees, the real kicker on this is true refugees could never afford the boat fees. Most of the ones I have met have come from what we would call middle class. Same as the great Vietnamese influx in the 70's, the majority of them were not in fact destitute, but fairly well off and brought in lots of gold way before our customs service was anywhere near any good.
Do not get me wrong I am not against refugees, but we as a country should be selecting them from border camps, not being dictated by a few undesirables who gets in. These people are circumventing the system. Do it on a plane and you are placed straight back on a plane, no ifs and butts. Do it on a boat and destroy your papers and you get in.

Craig

Would you please direct me to the resource where I could verify the following regarding refugees.

give them a $400,000 home, a car, a house full of furniture and social security benefits

Thanks

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Originally Posted by CraigE

Yeah, probablly not the best place to get into it, but IMHO most of the so called refugees we get are not true refugees, the real kicker on this is true refugees could never afford the boat fees. Most of the ones I have met have come from what we would call middle class. Same as the great Vietnamese influx in the 70's, the majority of them were not in fact destitute, but fairly well off and brought in lots of gold way before our customs service was anywhere near any good.
Do not get me wrong I am not against refugees, but we as a country should be selecting them from border camps, not being dictated by a few undesirables who gets in. These people are circumventing the system. Do it on a plane and you are placed straight back on a plane, no ifs and butts. Do it on a boat and destroy your papers and you get in.

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CraigE,

Please provide the reference for your definition of a refugee? Why is it that you are applying economic status levels to them?


The 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (and its 1967 Protocol), to which Australia is a signatory, defines a refugee as:

Any person who owing to a well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his/her nationality and is unable, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country.

The important parts of this definition are:

• that the person has to be outside their country of origin
• the reason for their flight has to be a fear of persecution
• this fear of persecution has to be well founded (ie they have to have
• experienced it or be likely to experience it if they return)
• the persecution has to result from one or more of the 5 grounds listed in the definition
• they have to be unwilling or unable to seek the protection of their country

Nothing at all in there about the ability of anyone to be able to afford/not afford anything. It is all about fear, and a millionaire can be just as fearful as street sweeper.