Carbon Tax on it's way through the House.

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12th October 2011, 05:57 PM
JDNSW

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverfan

Also a point the scare mongers always forget to mention is that whilst it may not decrease our overall carbon footprint when you take into consideration population growth it is a major decrease in the per capita output.

Which has exactly zero relevance to global warming! Without a way of at least stopping population growth, everything else is simply (expensive) window dressing.

John
12th October 2011, 06:16 PM
CraigE

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEK064

Leave my car out of this - its the only vice i have left!! You are right. I know little about mining. I know they make holes in the ground and ship the product out without value adding. I know that they make huge profits and yet pay less tax than most. I know they pay silly amounts to drive big trucks and even more for people with degrees. *I know that their success can be measured , but so can the misery of those people in the towns that get taken over.

If you work in the mines or make a living that way, good luck to you, but i'm sure you are not tell me that a trading scheme that will have little to no global effect on CO2 and one that will see the credits traded overseas is a good thing, or that selling our coal to power a third countries dirty power stations is a good thing for our kids future.

But I'm off subject as this is not about the environment or mining - It is about tax.

I do what I can to become self sufficient. I built a new house and sent more than I could afford on clean technology and methods to save the heat/cooling cost in a passive way. I have my own super, and I work hard to pay the taxes and maybe more than some. I buy Australian food products because It make sense. I buy local when ever I can - I even have a large vegy garden and hug one of my 1000plus trees on my slice of heaven. And I've*lived in 5 other countries and always come back because this is what I call home, so when the government I trust with the future of my kids is doing little or nothing to improve their future, other than yet another tax because they cannot think laterally, well I just don't think that right.

When did over taxing solve anything....it did not work at Ballarat 1854 and it will not work here.

Hey I dont agree with the carbon tax in the form it is in as it actually achieves very little. I could however be swayed on one that actually accomplished something worth while.
I am sorry but without mining this country would be bankrupt, no ifs, no buts.
I agree we should be doing some downstream processing, but you can not just blame the miners for that. Our job is extracting the ore from the ground and selling it. Often that is to overseas producers as we as consumers do not want to pay $100 a sheet for colourbond, $10,000 dollars for a set of saucepans or $100,000 for Hyundai Elantra. The processing and manufacturing capabilities just are not here, let alone sourcing employees at $2 a day to run them and produce said items.
I would love to see down stream processing but I am a realist and know it is generally just not feasable.
If you want to blame anyone how about blaming spineless governments who are controlled by corporate executives, who have no foresight.
I am sick of hearing the towns get taken over bull**** too, it does happen, but what about similar growth in places like Greater Sydney? What about the 80% of the mining work force that are FIFO? so actually live in our cities and keep these areas sustainable. Growth happens wether we like it or not and is tied with population growth and as it is we focus too much on overpopulating our cities.
The reason most people earn good money in the mining industry is because we will live and work in ****holes most of the population wont, we comply to D&A testing that most wont, we work hard in hot climates in high risk jobs that most wont and above all we are away from families for long periods of time and this is why we are compensated accordingly. Most of the jobs dont pay much more as a base rate than anywhere else. Most is paid for shift penalties and living remote.
You also tend to forget the cost of living in many of these areas absorbs a lot of the so called higher income.
There is also a widespread misconception that everybody earns $200k a year, well that is rare. Truck drivers working 2 weeks on 1 week off on 12hr days are on around $120k, which is around the average. Construction is where the actual big money is, construction of mining infrastructure, I dont see anyone criticising that part of the industry.
12th October 2011, 06:24 PM
Hymie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucaro

Great day for Australia and the planet :twobeers::twobeers::banana:

Geez Chucaro, I didn't know you were noted for sarcasm.
12th October 2011, 06:33 PM
Hymie

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEK064

Leave my car out of this - its the only vice i have left!! You are right. I know little about mining. I know they make holes in the ground and ship the product out without value adding.

Yep, only because the were either Taxed out of it or developing counties that are going to get our carbon tax dollars can do it cheap.
12th October 2011, 06:39 PM
Hymie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucaro

So, in the way that you think is that just because another countries pollute, it is ok for us to pollute as well :confused:

Confused all right!!!
You don't get it do you?
We are going to be giving our money to other countries to pollute as much as they can.
The argument is not supposed to be about Pollution.
It's supposed to be about minimising Man Made Climate change, and despite Julias edict that the science is in, the science is still being debated and that's what makes people mad, the fact that we have been conned and lied to.
12th October 2011, 06:58 PM
barefoot

I cant believe this. Sounds like everything we buy is going to get dearer :mad:
12th October 2011, 07:10 PM
CraigE

Quote:

Originally Posted by barefoot

I cant believe this. Sounds like everything we buy is going to get dearer :mad:

That is pretty much the jist of it.
People will pay and nothing will get done to actually help the environment and then with the extra revenue you can guarantee that the pollies will stick their hand out for a big pay rise. A few will be compensated in a small way but most of us who will pay. How much will probablly take 5 years to really know the final cost.
12th October 2011, 07:29 PM
roverfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigE

That is pretty much the jist of it.
People will pay and nothing will get done to actually help the environment and then with the extra revenue you can guarantee that the pollies will stick their hand out for a big pay rise. A few will be compensated in a small way but most of us who will pay. How much will probablly take 5 years to really know the final cost.

But there is no extra revenue
12th October 2011, 07:31 PM
Mick_Marsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverfan

Your $460 a year will go towards the creation of jobs to strengthen the economy. It's not just about pollution it is about establishing Australia as a leader in clean energy research and development, essentially future proofing our economy so that it doesn't rely on the mining industry to sustain it.

No it won't. Don't believe what the pollies say. Any money spent on green energy will be creating jobs in Thailand, India, Chillie and other overseas countries. I'm in the industry. I see this often. "How can we do this cheaper? Send it off shore."

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverfan

Australia is in a great position to be an innovator and a leader in this field that will pay dividends going forward instead of relying on an industry that rapes the resources of our country to benefit foreign investors. The mining boom won't last forever as even without the carbon tax there will come a te when we can't compete with Luther resource rich countries with a lower cost of doing business.

That time has passed. Innovation has moved off shore. We can't compete. Our knowledgeable people are moving overseas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverfan

Australia needs to move away from manufacturing and build on it's strengths as an innovative nation as that's where the future of industry for our country lies.

Australia needs to be self sufficient. If Australia wants it, design and manufacture it in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverfan

And bitching about a few hundred bucks a week is pathetic.

A few hundred bucks a week is more than most have as disposable cash. I think you meant a different figure. I don't object to paying a few hundred dollars a year provided it is spent in Australia on alternative energy and carbon reduction research and development. This carbon tax will not be used for that purpose.
12th October 2011, 07:46 PM
Veryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymie

Confused all right!!!
You don't get it do you?
We are going to be giving our money to other countries to pollute as much as they can.
The argument is not supposed to be about Pollution.
It's supposed to be about minimising Man Made Climate change, and despite Julias edict that the science is in, the science is still being debated and that's what makes people mad, the fact that we have been conned and lied to.

As a scientist of the earth, the science is still under debate, that makes me mad. Its not even proven, or we have not even proven to what extent we have effected the earth.

Since I work in billions of years, as a opposed to a few hundred years the earth will sort us all out in the end, need not worry all :p

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