100% Renewable energy in Australia by 2020, apparently it is possible.

**Hendrik** · 13th November 2011, 09:48 AM

I've been doing a lot of research into renewable and future energy lately, including zero emission coal and gas, which is very interesting. I have always been very sceptical towards renewable power such as wind and PV solar, partly because of their intermittency and lack of power density. One technology that I think has great potential in Australia is solar thermal power, as it is one of the only renewable sources that can provide base load power. Here's an interesting document I've found that on how Australia can go 100% renewable by 2020. I think 100% renewable is possible by 2020, but it will be a mamoth task with lots of issues.

http://media.beyondzeroemissions.org..._Report_v1.pdf

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this document and the prospect of 100% renewable in Australia. Let's focus the arguments purely on energy and lets not have another "is global warming real" debate.

**wrinklearthur** · 13th November 2011, 11:18 AM

Hi Hendrik

I have saved that report and will read it again, more thoroughly later.

Thanks for that posting, it's very thought provoking.

**Barefoot Dave** · 13th November 2011, 12:29 PM

G'Day Hendrik.
Nice one, Thanks.
Working through it slowly.

All it takes is long term political 'WILL' power. As in "We WILL do it", rather than tit-for-tat and a focus on the 24hr news cycle : (

I am constantly mystified why Solar thermal ponds aren't on every remote station in the country.
Got a salty bore? Use that water to generate heat and create fresh water!!
Country dying from Salinity? Use it as a resource= Desalination on a mass scale.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Moder...olar-Pond.aspx
Cheers Mate.

**rovercare** · 13th November 2011, 01:03 PM

Because it doesn't work well enough yet, underlying issues such as frequency and voltage control, which noone mentions when on a crusade to cleanse the earth....

**rovercare** · 13th November 2011, 01:07 PM

Watch this thread turn into a political banter with no technical merit

**Hendrik** · 13th November 2011, 01:29 PM

Bit of a generalisation, which type of renewable energy are you referring to?

**rovercare** · 13th November 2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Bit of a generalisation, which type of renewable energy are you referring to?

Anything without large masses of spinning copper....large turbines

**Hendrik** · 13th November 2011, 01:45 PM

All renewable sources except photvoltaics (PV) involves the spinning of copper, so you need to be more specific in your argument. The only renewable sources that can provide constant baseload at this stage are biomass, geothermal and solar thermal. They all spin turbines and use the Rankine cycle, the same ones as used in fossil fuels, so I don't really see how the frequency and voltage issues could be an issue. If you are referring to distribution losses then yes, in the case of geothermal, as most EGS resources are located in central Australia, far away from customers.

**rovercare** · 13th November 2011, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Hendrik

All renewable sources except photvoltaics (PV) involves the spinning of copper, so you need to be more specific in your argument. The only renewable sources that can provide constant baseload at this stage are biomass, geothermal and solar thermal. They all spin turbines and use the Rankine cycle, the same ones as used in fossil fuels, so I don't really see how the frequency and voltage issues could be an issue. If you are referring to distribution losses then yes, in the case of geothermal, as most EGS resources are located in central Australia, far away from customers.

Large turbines, not little windfarms, which you can't manually control RPM's, they need to be driven, Hazelwood currently has the contract for frequency control, flogging turbines for extra cash, you imagine 200(220) MW turbines trying to be under or overdriven...

Voltage issues are again to due irregular increases and decreases due to change on weather etc.....PV is molesting the grid voltages

Losses are massive, how do you step up from central australia to southern victoria viably? and with losses come instability, frequency and voltage...

Speaking of PV, better go and finish my own system

**Hendrik** · 13th November 2011, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by rovercare

Large turbines, not little windfarms, which you can't manually control RPM's, they need to be driven, Hazelwood currently has the contract for frequency control, flogging turbines for extra cash, you imagine 200(220) MW turbines trying to be under or overdriven...

Voltage issues are again to due irregular increases and decreases due to change on weather etc.....PV is molesting the grid voltages

Losses are massive, how do you step up from central australia to southern victoria viably? and with losses come instability, frequency and voltage...

Speaking of PV, better go and finish my own system

The losses issue is the main problem with geothermal, unless there's some serious development in high voltage DC lines, which unfortunately I do not know much about. However, I do think solar thermal is a way forward, they can be placed in proximity to existing power stations where transmission lines are already available. The changes in output can be controlled by molten salt, which is already being used extensively in Spain.

Another technology I that will receive a lot of attention in the coming years is clean coal technology such as integrated combine cycle gassification, oxyfuel combustion and post treatment. Coal is just too big in Australia to be simply phased out, like the document is hinting at. However, the issue is that it takes away up to 15% of the power output of the plant, something that will hopefully be resolved in the future.

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