Thread: Motorcyclists and cyclists - splitting lanes and switching teams!

Increased bicycle use saves money and time for all road users. If every cyclist was a single occupant of a large car, would traffic move better? I don't think so.

I am not going to go on about this too much as everyone has their point of view and not many can see it from a motorcycle's point of view, full time for 15 years. I am also not going to defend every dick and harry out there.

Every day I see motorcycles on the highway running either in between traffic rather than waiting their turn, just like all others have to, or worse, running up the emergency lane at the side, sometimes at very high speeds. Just because you can doesn't mean you should - should I drive my 4x4 on the grass verge to get around traffic because it can go there and the cars can't? And yes, I have seen 4x4 owners do this too. I have had handlebar and fairing "touches" as bikes have passed me while lane splitting, by the time you realise they are 100m ahead and out of view so what can you do about it. And then we get all the PR about how we need to be mindful and respectful of motorcyclists, check our blind spot etc but this should apply to bikes in the next lane, not sharing your lane. As a former bike rider I'm mindful of this but I never once split lanes (bit unsafe on a cruiser with wide bars) and the main protaganists tend to be the sports bikes.

OK - you used to ride a cruiser, fair enough. Why did you stop?
Remember this for motorcycles that lane split:

* If we dont we get someone slam us from behind saying that didn't see us as we blend in to the car in front
* If we tip the mirrors of your car - you or the guy next to ya probly didn't leave a gap - next time leave a gap.
* We lane split because people don't see us and because people dont do head checks! Lane splitting saves us! (Was proved when a guy lane split after noting a car coming up behind him, said car went right in to the back of the car ahead - if he didn't move he would have been dead... car in question was a marked copper!)

As for the push bike riders here is a plain fact I see every day here in Melbourne - also on Mountain HWY.. yep HWY! 3 frigen lanes and the ****** take a whole one.

The main reason why people are really starting to HATE push bikes on ROADS is as follows:

* They don't care what impact they are having to traffic! Time and time again they back up a lane and nearly cause crash's to happen BECAUSE the drivers are *******! And because they are on the road! People in cars have enough traffic to deal with let alone some mid 30's tosser in Lycra trying to pushy his way to work.
* Our government spent MILLIONS creating biking paths - all over the City and suburbs - FRIGGEN USE THEM!
* Pushy riders dont wear ANY safety gear at all - but yet want to cry when they come off and get hurt! Again - WTF be on the road if you are not wearing protection?
* The pushy riders that like to ride up in mountain areas - same thing - no respect for other road users or the danger they pose! What about a motorcycle rider coming down the mountain finds you taking the entire lane! Should he crash his 20k plus motorcycle because you couldn't careless about anyone but you and your push bike, or knock you off the bike and save himself and the motorbike?

I know what I'll choose every time and the pushy can go flying off the mountain for all I care. Because they don't think about the issues they are causing while they are on the road - and if you want to ride in the mountains - get a mountain bike! Its what they are for!

/endrant

Originally Posted by RaZz0R

The main reason why people are really starting to HATE push bikes on ROADS is as follows:

* They don't care what impact they are having to traffic! Time and time again they back up a lane and nearly cause crash's to happen BECAUSE the drivers are *******! And because they are on the road! People in cars have enough traffic to deal with let alone some mid 30's tosser in Lycra trying to pushy his way to work.
* Our government spent MILLIONS creating biking paths - all over the City and suburbs - FRIGGEN USE THEM!
* Pushy riders dont wear ANY safety gear at all - but yet want to cry when they come off and get hurt! Again - WTF be on the road if you are not wearing protection?
* The pushy riders that like to ride up in mountain areas - same thing - no respect for other road users or the danger they pose! What about a motorcycle rider coming down the mountain finds you taking the entire lane! Should he crash his 20k plus motorcycle because you couldn't careless about anyone but you and your push bike, or knock you off the bike and save himself and the motorbike?

I know what I'll choose every time and the pushy can go flying off the mountain for all I care. Because they don't think about the issues they are causing while they are on the road - and if you want to ride in the mountains - get a mountain bike! Its what they are for!

In answer to your points above:

* Agreed, the drivers in question are usually *******. People in cars would have even more traffic to deal with if the cyclists all started driving - come to think of it, why don't you buy a bike or catch a bus? And not all tossers in their mid 30s ride bikes - for example, some drive Land Rovers.

*Most cyclists do use bike paths where they are available. Maybe the government should try linking them up so they go somewhere. It would also help if motorists stopped parking in them.

*Pushy riders wear helmets and gloves as a minimum and don't cry when they fall off. Generally they keep riding and bleed all over anyone silly enough to come close.

*The riders in "mountain areas" have just as much right to be there as a motorcyclist. The fact that they're a bit slow makes no difference. Is it OK for the speeding motorcyclist to run into a farmer's tractor taking up the whole lane? As for the value of the motorcycle, the push bike is likely to be the more valuable machine.

As for your suggestion that we all get mountain bikes, most cyclists do. I've got a few myself. No lycra though - probably should look into that.

Ah funny stuff :-)

On a more serious note tho - the guys on Mt Dandy here in Vic need to serious get off it - myself and mates have collected a heap of video footage of them using the entire road - they just make it more of a danger.

Helmet - check - fingerless gloves - check - anything to stop the legs being ripped up while sliding @ 40kph or more down the road? nope.

Bike paths - probly alot using them - its the ones backing up peak hour traffic because they are in a lane while right next to the road is a bike path. makes you wonder.

So yeah - if we all got motorcycles there would be less traffic and less ******* on the road coz they would simply DIE while trying to ride a motorcycle. Every learner should be made to do 6 months on a motorcycle before taking control of a car - it would show them how much of a danger the road really is and weed out the fools a little.

Oh.. and yeah - while the law might say a pushy can go ride up in the hills with blind corners and all the rest of it - where does it say that someone can go do this and make the road more of a danger by doing so?

Either way - this will go on and on - I just used this thread to vent a little. There are good cases for pushy riders, and lots of bad. Same with motorcycles, same with 4WD'ing

Originally Posted by pfillery

As for bicycles, nothing frustrates me more than changing out of the left lane to pass a cyclist on a busy road (so as not to pass too close to them in a dirty great big land rover), which can be impossible at times in peak hour, changing back to the lane I was in, stopping at the next set of lights to see the same cyclist pass you by riding in the gutter, ride across the pedestrian crossing and back onto the road, meaning you have to pass him again further up the road. Plus the usual riding 2 abreast, etc etc. Cyclists demand equal treatment by road users and yet some do not give that back. Things won't be truly equal until there is some form of licencing or at least competency for cyclists using a bike as a road going mode of transport. Even if it is just a requirement to do some sort of safety course on the road rules, because a car cannot run a red light by driving onto the footpath can it? If you can be done for drink driving on a bike, then all other rules should be enforced as well. Rego numbers maybe?

Actually this is illegal, but if the cyclist stops, dismounts, walks the bike across then continues to ride, thats fair game.

So long as they are in the same lane this is semi legal, for you to pass a cyclist you are supposed to change to the whole other lane not just far enough to get around the cyclist. 90% of the time a smart cyclist when pulled over for "2 abreast" will claim that he was overtaking the cyclist nearest the curb. Believe it or not it is perfectly legal for a push bike to be taking up the whole left lane and then have another one overtaking him by taking up the whole right lane. May not be smart but its legal....

Sure it can.

Hi Pfillery

Clover Moore (the Mayor of Sydney) has budgeted $12 mil for building cycleways in Sydney. At present 2% of city bound traffic are bicycles. The target is 10% in the short term. In the past year there has been a 60% (AM) and 48% (PM) increase in people cycling in Inner Sydney. If you are a disgruntled driver (or truckie) your wows will get worse.

The reality is that I can move around the city and across from the inner west to the eastern suburb beaches in the same or marginally longer time than in a car. Taking into account the time wasted looking for a parking spot, a cyclist is well ahead. The city is a car park in peak hour. Why would a cyclist endure that same traffic gridlock when he/she has the means to take advantage of stationary traffic and split lanes.

There must be some reward to compensate the risks of riding in Sydney (or any town/city in Australia for that matter). I have no problem with my bad behaviour.

To Disco99 - I love ignorance. I think you have missed a great and positive aspect to riding a bike. Most cyclists (well over a million bikes are sold annually) own a car as well but choose to ride and leave the car at home. Therefore the cyclist pays rego for his unused car, insurance on an unused car, the tax money and levies collected by the state and federal government are not being used to repair damage to the roads caused by use of that vehicle (unlike your circumstance as a truckie on the road daily all day). If anyone has a right to complain it's the cyclist that he/she is paying for services/infrastructure not used. As for the tyre width, the smaller the contact point with the road (in relation to the weight of the bike and rider) the greater the pressure and bonding strength with the road. Think of a clutch, a 3 puck clutch has greater clamping power than a 4 or more puck clutch. Coupled with the soft rubber compound of a "race" tyre the tyre that you criticise has better road bonding than your truck tyres pound for pound. A 23mm race tyre has less rolling resistance than a mountain bike tyre (by a country mile) therefore can get up to speed and maintain speed with less energy demand from the cyclist. You should encourage race tyres on all bikes. It will speed up the bike that is moving slowly in front of you.

Thanks Pfillery for providing a forum for my rant.

ps: I drive a 110 in her natural environment, on weekends offroad (mostly). Where do i send my form to recover some of my under-utilised CTP, Rego, taxes and levies?

cheers MLD

We have a local road that is winding, downhill, and one-way. Well, it seems it's only one-way to motorised traffic. Cyclists seem to ignore that road rule and it's not uncommon to come around a blind curve to find a cyclist struggling up the hill and right in the middle of the road.

A cyclist going down the hill isn't a problem - some can ride down faster than we can drive and, often, faster than I can ride my motorbike down the hill.

When I used to ride my motorcycle to work every day from Mona Vale to the CBD, I used to split lanes regularly, but only in stopped traffic. On the one occasion that I touched a mirror , I went to great pains to restore it to its original position, so got no ire from the driver.

Really the only reason that you would ride into the city or Sydney rain or shine is to take advantage of lane splitting and legally using the bus lanes and save 1/2 hour or more. just because you can do this shouldn't upset car drivers . After all they can do what I did and buy a motorcycle or scooter , if they are not wedded to their comfort so much. Think of the reduction in traffic volume as 4 bikes could fit in the space of one car.

Bike riders never really bothered me unless they were riding side by side in the bus lane , or riding up Spit Hill with 5 buses stuck behind them, when there was a better alternative up Parriwi Rd.
I still cannot understand why bike riders insist on riding on the busiest roads in Australia eg Military Rd , when there are dead quiet rat runs that may be a bit more hilly , eg through Mosman. After all they say they are doing it for the exercise.

City couriers that ride on the footpath are another matter. They are a menace and have killed people in Sydney.

Despite my efforts to be non controversial, I had several road rage incidents against me. One where a "lady" roundly abused me for land splitting while talking on a mobile phone.

BUT more seriously , I once came up behind a Falcon Wagon not lane splitting, and the guy got out and abused me for my light (during the day )dazzling him. I couldn't really point out that the light didn't have a switch. He then tailgated me until I was able to lane split and give him the slip.

The most serious prompted me to sell my bike as soon as I retired. that was a person in a Holden Commodore Ute who seemingly objected to me coming up beside him after lane splitting, and when the lights changed he drove into my bike , hitting me in the right leg. I slowed down to let him go so he waited for me and veered into my lane as I came abreast . It really rattled me as this person was intent on hurting me.

I began to realize what nut cases were on the road and sold my motorcycle as I figured I had used my quota of luck.

Regards Philip A