Holden Wants How Much ?

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Originally Posted by copba

...Guvment departments, and pollies should be using Australian cars. Captn' Bligh's driving round in a Chrysler 300C! Wouldn't a Statesman be more appropriate?

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The problem with that is that the Government would then be in breach of the WTO treaties it signed in the hope of a level playing field.

Our various Governments used to have such policies but they had to be rescinded.

But one may suggest that most of us on this very forum are in breach of what we are suggesting our Government should be doing. On that note I must say that 3 of my vehicle were at least Australian assembled and one almost completly Australian manufactured, but that happened in the heyday of Australian manufacturing.

The problems I see with the auto industry are such:
1: Far too many platforms available, Ford & Holden currently have 9 different platforms, Mazda have 8, Nissan have 14, and Toyota have 16 when really they only need 5, Small/medium car, Large Car, 4wd, Van and Electric, with Sedan/Coupe/Ute/Wagon variants as appropriate.
Nissan have the right idea with the D40 Navara sharing the bulk of the D51 Pathfinder's design, Toyota with the Aurion and Camry being on essentially the same body but with different sheetmetal, and Isuzu building a wagon variant of their new DMAX ute in the same way that Nissan has with the Navara/Pathfinder.
The less platforms you have, the lower your development costs are, and the less money you have to recoup, meaning you can offer the product at a lower cost and still make a good profit.
A great example is Holden with 4 different variants on a theme, Spark, Barina, Barina Classic and Combo (based IIRC on the old SB barina platform which is no longer available)

2: The "Niche" manufacturers REALLY need to stick to what they do best, WHY does Porsche need to make a sedan or wagon? Bentley unveiled their concept "EXP 9 F" SUV at the Geneva motor show this year.... Seriously? Bentley? SUV?

3: There are WAY too many different manufacturers competing on the marketplace that offer the same damn item with a different badge.
Australia DOES NOT need an Isuzu Dmax, its simply a 2007-2008 Holden Rodeo with different fabric trim and different badges, the same goes for Mazda and Ford offering the BT50/Ranger.
And then there is Opel, which, the last time I looked, was a subsidiary of General Motors, just like Holden, but Opel is bringing 3 models to the Australian market, effectively increasing GM's market to 12 different platforms, even though it makes no sense whatsoever to have 2 subsidiaries of the same parent company competing against each other for the same market.

4: Allowing cheap **** like Cherry, Great Wall, Mahindra, etc to flood the local market with substandard rubbish to the detriment of the local car industry, yes, they sell but ONLY because theyre cheap.
In a few years Australia will have the problem that New Zealand has where cars are worth next to nothing second hand because the market is flooded with flogged out 5 year old imported crapboxes.

5: The auto manufacturers keep forgetting that Australia IS NOT, and NEVER will be Europe or the USA, and keep trying to force crap on us that is either hideously styled or just doesnt suit the Australian market.
For example, the F series that Ford keep trying to bring to Australia isnt spectacularly successful, people tend to buy the damn things for pose/status value, otherwise, theyre too big, too expensive, build quality is crap, and reliability is a MAJOR issue. The same can be said for a lot of the Chrysler products, and Toyota is guilty too, the 100 series Landcruiser wagons are a GREAT product, especially in factory turbo diesel form, but no, they HAD to upgrade to the 200 series, an overcomplicated behemoth..... same can be said when they went from the HZJ/HDJ 75/79 series Landcruiser commercials to the V8 diesel VDJ70's.... If it aint broke, DO NOT **** with it.

and for giggles, certain manufacturers expect ALL their dealers to have showrooms that look the same, down to using a specific floor tile, carpet, signage, etc..... funnily enough, most of the specified stuff is only available from one supplier, at high cost relative to comparable materials, and in the case of dealership signage, dealers are instructed that they are only to purchase from one particular signwriter, a subsidiary of the manufacturer.....

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Ford and Holden could have been at the forfront of vehicle manufacturing by making vehicles to suit the market that is still rife today,instead they made vehicles nobody wants for a market that doesn't exist and now they want us to pay them for it. Pat

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I know where you're coming from Pat, but they did (use to) make cars people wanted. Its not that long ago that the 'big Aussie family six' was the be all and end all of what people wanted in a car - a big Aussie car for Aussie conditions.

The idea of small, fuel efficient cars was a bit, well, wimpy!

The reductions in the import tariffs, introduction of free trade and other legislation that has made importing cars more attractive has already been mentioned and these days people now want cars that are cheaper to run. This does also work in Ford and Holden's favour as its cheaper to import the likes of the Barina and Fiesta to meet these demands rather than actually spend millions developing a small car of their own.

Ford and Holden have actually tried to diversify their local products to give people what they want, the Territory is a very good and relatively cheap all wheel drive/estate/towing car (the new one anyway) and Holden developed the Cruze hatch small car.
Admittedly the market for the big Aussie six is shrinking so they'll have to do something to the Falcon and Commodore if they're to continue.

Australia is one of only 15 ( I think) countries in the world with the capability of taking a car from concept, through development into production and of those countries, Australia dishes out the least amount of money to its auto industry by a long way.

The UK government has recognised that since the gfc, the country needs to actually make something and can't rely on being a service industry economy and so has given grants/funding/tax cuts or whatever to the auto industry which has seen the likes of Nissan announce new car production and more jobs in their plants in Sunderland.

Hopefully our government recognizes the benefits of a car industry that can do its own R&D, fund innovative research, create manufacturing jobs etc and doesnt think that financial services or digging stuff out if the ground is all the economy needs.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

The problem with that is that the Government would then be in breach of the WTO treaties it signed in the hope of a level playing field.

Our various Governments used to have such policies but they had to be rescinded.

But one may suggest that most of us on this very forum are in breach of what we are suggesting our Government should be doing. On that note I must say that 3 of my vehicle were at least Australian assembled and one almost completly Australian manufactured, but that happened in the heyday of Australian manufacturing.

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You are correct the heyday is over and it will be sad to see them go. Personally if it is not an Aussie built and designed car keeping local people employed I will not buy one at the moment. Obviously that will have to change if we lose that capability, but I will not care what I buy then.
I am not in breach of this line of thought yet. We own a Statesman as our nice drive car and will stay on that path while they are available. I also own a historical Holden Torana (due for resto). Then we have the Land Rover as a 4x4 as Holden do not make a decent 4x4 and what they do have is imported anyway.
I actually couldnt care less if we have to breach the WTO treaties to protect our local industry, that is far more important than pandering to overseas business interest. I think the govt especially should only buy locally made and designed vehicles wether that be Holden, Ford or Toyota (obviously except 4x4 and heavy vehicles). We are not a massive market for the global big boys so that is not a real issue.
If it has to happen one way it should be the other way to. How many Aussie built current model Holdens or Fords do you see in Japan, Most of Asia, Europe or the US. They want a fair playing field as long as it works in their favour not ours.
We have already seen two major players withdraw from Australia and Chrysler was a sad loss and the Mitsubishi close its design and manufacturing plant.

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Originally Posted by CraigE

You are correct the heyday is over and it will be sad to see them go. Personally if it is not an Aussie built and designed car keeping local people employed I will not buy one at the moment. ...

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Hi Craig

Yes, in our hope to get the level playing field for our agricultural produce we dropped the barriers to imports and sacrificed our manufacturing on alter of free trade. Our Governments, despite what they wish to do, are in bondage to the WTO, so it is up to us citizens to hold up the flag.

However I fear the dollar is almighty and most will buy the cheapest item available, be that Cherry (formerly Austin-Rover), Great Wall or Mahindra. Even the Japanese are getting too expensive.

WTO is not just about vehicles, the reason we have dropped tariffs on cars is also so that our exports aren't subject to tariffs at the country we are exporting too. I think this is mostly to allow our farm related exports like wheat to compete on a level playing field.

No one likes driving around in the equivalent of a Trabant. That is the sort of thing you get when you protect an industry to the extent that you just can't afford the imports. The locals know they have got protection and produce the minimum quality/expense they can get away with because they know the local population has no choice but to buy their offerings.

Too much protection produces ordinary product at a premium price. It is not easy to come up with a solution as protecting our vehicle industry results in a backlash elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by slug_burner

WTO is not just about vehicles, ...

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Just try to buy an Australian made stapler, or an Aussie made Sidchrome tool, or a Aussie made Bonds singlet. All sacrificed to the alter of free trade, and the battle of the bottom line.

But what doesn't get discussed by the WTO is US farm subsidies.

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Originally Posted by Sprint

4: Allowing cheap **** like Cherry, Great Wall, Mahindra, etc to flood the local market with substandard rubbish to the detriment of the local car industry, yes, they sell but ONLY because theyre cheap.
In a few years Australia will have the problem that New Zealand has where cars are worth next to nothing second hand because the market is flooded with flogged out 5 year old imported crapboxes.

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As a buyer I can say Jap imports have been great for the general public here and have their own little industry proividing jobs as well
while some Jap imports are crap the ones we get in NZ are generally very good and have made buying your first car much easier for the general public and have the effect (subtle) of keeping the main dealers on their toes. eg One importer brought in 300 brand new Honda Fit which is a Jazz from a japanese honda dealer retail $17999.00 same Honda car retail $22000.00 , they sold like hot cakes and Honda went round telling people there were NOT the same car!!!!! unsafe etc !!!!! (made in thailand etc etc) Gave a two year warranty as well but being a honda never any problems anyway . I remember the old days before imports when clocking speedos and putting on new rubbers on the brake pedals to make them line up with the apparent "mileage" I knew a computer geek who could access your BMWand other Luxury cars computer and put the electronic speedo back to what ever mileage you wanted. Of course Jap imports can be clocked as well but they are offering cetification now from Japanese car inspectors now I believe to certify the milage as correct.
Also has the effect of stopping the Main dealers from charging sky high prices for parts as well which is important.

I guess this is a little like buying parts from overseas instead of local and we see some threads about this on this forum.

well the government opened there wallets.

Holden gets $275m from three governments | News.com.au