national service that all greens and do gooders should serve

Keep in mind that before our Vietnam involvement, the commy push was being played out in Malaya. We stopped them there.
After the yanks were chased yelling and screaming from Vietnam the fighting didn't end there. The Vietnamese attacked some of their neighbours and even had a bit of a scuffle with China. They soon saw the error of their ways and decided that economic prosperity was the way to go.
LIke it or not the vietnam war served its purpose, the communists realised after that war, the mayhem and destruction caused when modern weaponry is let loose, is to high a price to pay, so better to adopt globilisation and stuff.
At the time Menzies was on the right track by wanting strong economic and military ties with the USA. Prior to the vietnam conflict our peace treaties had no substance and there were percieved and real treats to our north. Worked out pretty well in the end.
Sad tho that the yanks still have not learned how to conduct a police action such as they are involved with in Afganistan. When we all pull out we will find that nothing has been gained or changed. Pakistan holds the balance of power in Afganistan and we know where they stand with their taliban mates.
The real threat now are the muslims and we are certainly losing that struggle.
Believe it or not.

Cheers.

Robert.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olbod

so better to adopt globilisation and stuff.


Cheers.

Robert.

---

So right
Well, my daughter & her friend are going to Vietnam for 3 weeks, initially I was not keen on that, so I kept a close watch on their preparations & venues, have to say I am completely happy with it now, Vietnam has embraced tourism , there are numerous packages, tours, or you can make up your own package [ which daughter has], cheap as, 4 star accommodation is cheap, train travel, boat travel, some terrific country to see, in the north. Safety & security is better than some other Asian countries in the region, and the food! a mixture of french & vietnamese. My Wife & I are saving up to go, be a bit different to the last time I was there, in the 70's, Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bob10

Yes. but think of the quality of the build! Ahhhhh.... a land rover with an MTU engine..........[ mind you, we might not have been allowed out of prison to drive them ] Bob :angel:

---

would there have been a land rover

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ivan

I think you will find that Britain was quite involved in trying to defend itself from the Germans at the time. It was also being slowly starved to death due to the destruction of the Atlantic convoys by the German U boats. I don't think they actually had any troops spare to support Australia or any other commonwealth country.

Ivan

---

Perhaps not, but the slimy ****** wanted to keep the 2nd. AIF over there or in Burma when we had the Japanese army on our doorstep.

Ok, we have worked out long term unemployed should not go to the military, what then? A "home army" where they do good work where required? Those who advocate military service for unemployed should remember, one day it might be them. I think all long term unemployed should be put to work on projects that benefit local & State governments, but the cost of that would probably be more than the dole, so, would you spend the money, and attempt to rehabilitate, or wear the cost of welfare? Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

Perhaps not, but the slimy ****** wanted to keep the 2nd. AIF over there or in Burma when we had the Japanese army on our doorstep.

---

Yep, Curtin fought for and brought home 2 Divisions from the Middle East and Churchill tried to have them diverted to Burma, Curtin took on Churchill and won, they came home to reinforce New Guinea.

Actually, according to this opinion piece, Curtin was under substantial pressure to acquiesce to Churchill by several conservative Australian politicians of the time, too.

It's an illuminating episode. In 1942, with the devastating Japanese swoop transforming Australia's strategic situation, the Curtin government decided Australian divisions should be recalled from the Middle East to defend Australia. Winston Churchill resisted, and tried to persuade Curtin that Australian formations should be diverted to Burma.
Curtin insisted the troops were needed here. Besides, Burma was a wild goose chase. The men were separated from their arms and equipment. To send them there would be to invite disaster.
Churchill exerted escalating pressure on Curtin. At this dramatic time, when Australia's national security was imperilled as neither before nor since, the strain on Curtin was immense.
Curtin's political opponents made his task harder. Support for Churchill's diversion came from no fewer than six men who at some stage held the office of Australian prime minister on the conservative side of politics.
Four of the six, including Menzies, made their views known in the Advisory War Council, a consultative body that included senior opposition MPs. The fifth, Stanley Bruce, was Australia's high commissioner in London.
The remaining Burma advocate was Page. He was then the Australian Government's representative in London in the Imperial War Cabinet. But Page was not just an advocate of the Burma proposal. He was its co-architect.
Misreading or ignoring the clear wishes of the government he was supposed to be serving, Page advocated the merits of the Burma diversion to Churchill personally. He told Churchill he would persuade Curtin to authorise it. Curtin, however, stood up to Churchill and Page, and insisted that his government's decision stand.
Churchill then took the extraordinary step of ordering an Australian convoy to Burma anyway. Curtin and his Labor ministers were amazed and enraged. Not only had Churchill shown brazen and cavalier disregard for the Australian government's clear opinion, they had also made the defenceless convoy more vulnerable to Japanese attack. Curtin told Churchill it was "quite impossible to reverse a decision which we have made with the utmost care, and which we have affirmed and reaffirmed".
Churchill grudgingly backed down. The convoy did not go to Burma, where the Australians would surely have been slaughtered or captured. They came home safely instead, which enabled some of them to fight at Kokoda.


Historian Alexander Downer's Burmese daze - Opinion - theage.com.au

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bob10

I think all long term unemployed should be put to work on projects that benefit local & State governments, but the cost of that would probably be more than the dole, so, would you spend the money, and attempt to rehabilitate, or wear the cost of welfare? Bob

---

I'd be happier if I could see that they did some work for my tax money instead of lying around surfing the internet etc.

South Africa is quickly becoming a welfare state with "grants" for everything. We, the tax payers, are supporting 3 unemployed each.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olbod

...
Sad tho that the yanks still have not learned how to conduct a police action such as they are involved with in Afganistan. When we all pull out we will find that nothing has been gained or changed. Pakistan holds the balance of power in Afganistan and we know where they stand with their taliban mates.
The real threat now are the muslims and we are certainly losing that struggle.
Believe it or not.

Cheers.

Robert.

---

Sorry Robert, but you couldn't be more misinformed about AFG. There is no 'police action' going on in most of RC-South (except for most of Uruzgan and pockets elsewhere). It is a war, and a savage one - stop your vehicle for more that 10 minutes in most of Helmand and get first-round-hit motar fire on your head.

As to no gains - where are you getting these insights from? Uruzgan could not be a more different place now than it was in 2001 - many other provinces are the same. Women and children are now going to school in Tarin Kowt (and elsewhere) and young men are learning trade skills instead of killing each other over decades-old tribal feuds. Yep, there's problems - still too much violence, abuse of kids, honour killings etc... and the Taliban are still very much present - but it's getting better every month.

Your understanding of Pakistan is also extremely simplistic and just-plain-wrong.

Finally: we aren't in any danger from Muslims - we are in danger from extremists, of all kinds.

Cheers,

Adam

Remember that we lost the 8th Div at Singapore in 41/42 when the British were adamant that any invasion would come by sea,and the Japanese army pedalled down the Peninsula on push bikes, and it was a British General that surrendered,the Australians wanted to fight on in a rearguard action so that the bulk could be evacuated by sea. and guess where a lot of the 8th's vehicles were found? on the western side of Cape York, in mid 42,this was reported by Australian natives to military command in Darwin, as the local Indigs had no love for the Japanese by the way they were treated by the "Pearling Industry" pre war, I believe that the RAAF and US airforce used the vehicle for target practice.

My father was stationed at Vestry's meat works until it was levelled, then moved to Larrakeyah Barracks,he was in Darwin on 19-2-42,was RAASC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UncleHo

Remember that we lost the 8th Div at Singapore in 41/42 when the British were adamant that any invasion would come by sea,and the Japanese army pedalled down the Peninsula on push bikes, and it was a British General that surrendered,the Australians wanted to fight on in a rearguard action so that the bulk could be evacuated by sea. and guess where a lot of the 8th's vehicles were found? on the western side of Cape York, in mid 42,this was reported by Australian natives to military command in Darwin, as the local Indigs had no love for the Japanese by the way they were treated by the "Pearling Industry" pre war, I believe that the RAAF and US airforce used the vehicle for target practice.

My father was stationed at Vestry's meat works until it was levelled, then moved to Larrakeyah Barracks,he was in Darwin on 19-2-42,was RAASC

---

I am sorry, but that is not how it happened. Yes the Australian Battalions in Malaysia fought magnificenly, and were let down somewhat by those forces on their left flank , in western Malaysia, but when the fighting went to Singapore, The Aussies, along with all other allied soldiers, fell victim to the incompetent leadership of the command group. As a matter of fact, the initial Japanese assault on Singapore was thru the Australian positions on the NW flank .They fought well, but lack of leadership , and confusion, meant the Japs. forced their way thru. Their was no such rearguard action contemplated , and anyone who says that wasn't there. The Aussies, in the washup, were not any better than most there. I can recommend a couple of history books to read on the subject if you wish. I get annoyed by the media building up our military reputation, when in war, everything depends on the command structure, our soldiers have built a reputation on looking after their mates, and that is a point of difference with other armies, but that means nothing if your command structure is not up to the task. Bob