national service that all greens and do gooders should serve

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Originally Posted by bob10

Ok, we have worked out long term unemployed should not go to the military, what then? A "home army" where they do good work where required? Those who advocate military service for unemployed should remember, one day it might be them. I think all long term unemployed should be put to work on projects that benefit local & State governments, but the cost of that would probably be more than the dole, so, would you spend the money, and attempt to rehabilitate, or wear the cost of welfare? Bob

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Everybody not involved misses the point of paying unemployment benefit or Newstart Allowance as it is known today. The clear and sole purpose is to enable a recipient to look for work. Have a look at the Social Security Act and The Guide to Administration of the Act. Recipients are under a number of obligations as far as job seeking is concerned. To actively seek work in a wide range of industries and occupations and not to restrict themselves to a particular occupation or industry. To be prepared to travel up to 1 1/2 hours each way to and from a job. To accept any suitable work offered to them, and other conditions.

The politicians make it difficult to cancel the benefits of those not complying by allowing a series of appeals. Welfare recipients vote! and the Department makes it hard by not providing sufficient review staff or facilities to provide hard nosed adequate coverage of recipients activities.

As to relief work, work for the dole schemes, and make work schemes, these have rarely been anything other than a disaster, little done, little learned, and the clients are usually the dregs of the labour force who resent being forced onto these schemes.

Whilst on these schemes they are not looking for work!

There are no doubt numbers of unemployed who took a concious decision to "retire" on the dole, however most long term unemployed are difficult to place in employment for one or more of many reasons. Some are - age (over 45's are commonly ignored by employers), lack of recent employment experience, lack of skills or qualifications, obsolete skills (think of jobs like watch maker, many printing trades), poor English, Aboriginal, ex-convict or recently released prisoner, health and incapacities, compensation history (try to get a job at BHP if you have this), poor literacy, unattractive (obese, tattoos, body hardware, outlandish hair styles and dress, poor grooming and hygiene).

Unless someone who is long term unemployed started off with considerable savings, by the time they have been three or four years unemployed without any little secret sidelines, they become dirt poor. Newstart is not a generous payment and barely supports a very modest lifestyle particularly if the client is seriously and actively seeking work as they are supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

unattractive (obese, tattoos, body hardware, outlandish hair styles and dress, poor grooming and hygiene)

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It seems to me that this would be an easy way to avoid being employed.

I know a girl in her mid 20,s who has been unemployed since leaving school at 15 she threatened teachers but her mum tells me it was the teachers fault. She has been on several work for the dole schemes and has found that if she makes a sexual harassment claim she is taken straight off the scheme and is not looked at again for some time.

unattractive (obese, tattoos, body hardware, outlandish hair styles and dress, poor grooming and hygiene).

she qualifies on all counts:(

She would not last in anybodies military but she does have several tafe childcare certificates paid for by the tax payer:(

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Originally Posted by p38arover

It seems to me that this would be an easy way to avoid being employed.

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Yes, and if it can be shown that this is being done deliberately then action can be taken but would probably not survive appeals. Federal Court has given decisions saying people have a freedom to deicde their personal appearance.

As I said in the earlier post, insufficient staff and facilities, and no teeth in the act.

Conscription has been around for a while.
My 88 year old uncle still has the letter he received two weeks after he turned 18, in early 1942 when Australia was under threat of Japanese invasion. It stated that he was required to present at the local (Euroa) Drs Clinic for a Medical Examination, so that he could join the Army.
He had never applied for the Armed Forces.
In the end he joined the Air Force and headed off overseas to fight for his country with dedication. He is still involved with his old Squadron today and drives several hundred kilometers to Sydney for regular ceromonies and meetings.

Cheers, Mick

There is a matter of context when conscripted. When the whole world is literally at war and the country is in danger of invasion, most reasonable people would not question conscription I would think. He has every right to be proud, good on him and well done. However, being told you are a no hoper so off to the army with you....that might work for a few, but really you just end up with an army of no hopers.

Adam. Police action, war call it what you will, doesn't matter.
Of course it is very savage and will continue to be and real gains are being made and conditions for females and youths are being improved, there is no doubt about it and that is good. But will it last when we pull out, I think not. Underneith things dont seem to have changed much and even now the locals want us out of their country. Has stability been achieved as we would recognise and accept ? Time will tell as cant afford to stay there forever.
If you trust Pakistan, then do so. The yanks dont. They know where the problem lies. They would love to get in there and get at them but their hands are tied. They keep sniping around the border areas and firing a missile or two but that only gets retaliation from the Paki's in one form or another.
I think the situation in Afghanistan for a win as we would like is not likely
but the effort is certainly worth it, but there comes a time !!!

The Americans are becoming a minority in their country, they are slowly being outnumbered by Hispanic migration. How far that will lead I dont know. Will the Hispanics hold the majority of Government or economics, and to what effect on globilisation.
Dont know dont care.

When we had a policy of English, Greek and Italian migration it was good and they assimilated really well were never a threat to our way of life but were an asset.
We all face a threat from insergents and radicalls but their hatred is directed mainly at the yanks.
The threat to our way of life in the western world comes simply from Muslim migration. There is unrest worldwide as this realisation starts to sink in. The Muslim does not want assimilisation but governance in their own right with Sharia law. Gained peacefully. So who would see that as a threat.
Bashir despite being an apparent nong, said that Australia would become
a Muslim country even if it took a hundred years. I believe him.
It's not just here tho, it's all over.
I have said elsewhere that when the Muslims take over here and introduce Sharia law, no one will lift a finger !!!
At this stage it is not worth arguing about but time will tell on both counts.

Cheers.

Robert.

You have some interesting theories Robert. Care to back any up with facts? USA wanting to invade Pakistan would be a good place to start. I've worked closely with US military for 10 years and never heard that plan - they are certainly concerned with some parts of the country, the role of the military and the role played in AFG. To suggest they want to 'get in there' is ridiculous - unless you have some proof?

If it is irrelevant wether AFG is a war or police action, why use the term police action? Seems to me you chose that term deliberately to denigrate the ISAF ability to manage the events in AFG. Wasn't that your point?

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Originally Posted by akelly

You have some interesting theories Robert. Care to back any up with facts? USA wanting to invade Pakistan would be a good place to start. I've worked closely with US military for 10 years and never heard that plan - they are certainly concerned with some parts of the country, the role of the military and the role played in AFG. To suggest they want to 'get in there' is ridiculous - unless you have some proof?

If it is irrelevant wether AFG is a war or police action, why use the term police action? Seems to me you chose that term deliberately to denigrate the ISAF ability to manage the events in AFG. Wasn't that your point?

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Sorry, that police action comment was out of place but certainly was not meant to be derogatory.
I did not say that the yanks want to invade Pakistan, you misread it.
The yanks along with everyone else are quite aware that the taliban have a safe haven and are being supported by Pakistan in Pakistan.
The taliban in those enclaves are the areas that the yanks would like to get at but are unable to do so. That was my point. Its not a matter of trying to deniigrate the ISAF ability. I have a very high regard for the Military, particularly ours. I am not much of a supporter of the yanks in getting things right or making good military decisions. Look at the crazy way that they went about it in Vietnam. But after eleven years I dont see a win or change for the better in Afghanistan likely to occour. We will bring the Troops home but elements will remain for many years but eventually they will be overwhelmed and have to be withdrawn. I and many others have come to believe that not much is going to be achieved there. I said that Pakistan holds the balance of power in Afghanistan by their support for the taliban. I dont mean now but in time down the track when we are gone. Who will oppose them or intervene. Time will tell.
To avoid any future confusion about where my loyalties lie, let me elaborate.
When I was in high school I was in the Army Cadets. I loved it and always looked forward to the camps at Singleton.
In 1959 I did my National Service. Loved it. Because I had been in the Cadets and was thought to be self sufficient and responsible they gave me two stripes. I finished my basic and was assigned to the RAEME ( I still have an old RAEME badge on the side of my Akubra ). Before the finish I was asked to stay on in the Regulars. I thought about it but decided that I did not want to be in a peace time Army. I was unaware that we were still engaged in Malaya. That is a decision that I have often regretted.
Down the track, I had a number of Mates who were serving in Vietnam over the years. We used to keep in touch with tape recorded audio tapes.
My young Bro joined the Regulars and also served up top.
A family friend and good Mate was WO Jack Cramp in the 1st Battalian. RIP.
He urged me to join up. I went down to Sydney to recruit at the end of 1965. I was a bit premature because prior to that I was involved in a bit of a truck accident and was not fully recovered. I didn't tell them about it but they picked it up and deemed me to be unfit.
A recent xray still showed that I had broken three vertabrae in my lower back many years ago. It wasn't for the lack of trying and as I said I still regret not staying in when I had the chance in 1959. But the past is past.

Cheers.

Robert.