Thread: bring our boys back or not

Originally Posted by p38arover

How? Civil revolt? We don't have any guns any more.

Military coup? Do the armed forces have any bullets for their guns?

Overthrow of the govt. would have to wait for the next election.

1.possibly and no comment to the second part
2 our military is very apolitical so proberbly not(and they only keep a weeks supply of ammo in the system)
3 if we ended up with an extreme form of govt elections usally dont count anymore

For my way of thinking I would say, bring them home now.
Its a problem that will never be solved in any way in which America would want. Docile, subjued and with a total desire to keep America safe.
Na, not gonna happen.

The only way to stabilise Afghanistan would be to clean out Pakistan.
You remember just a few short years ago that the taliban had moved into
Pakistan and were making inroads there and taking over towns and territory. Had the poor Paki's jumping around in fear.
Then that push sort of died out and went on the back burner. No big battle was fought to bring the taliban under control. Why, what happened ?
I kind of think that the Paki's done a deal. Leave us alone and we will support you in regaining your territory in Afghanistan. At the moment the taliban need a base, protection and arms and money, ok, Pakistan. Continue to make the war unpopular to the west untill the yanks pull out.
Not a very difficult proposal.
Then when they are gone, the taliban will have free rein and their territory
back with Pakistani help and support.
Not much that the yanks can do about that because they have their hands tied in Pakistan because those buggers have the bomb. Must keep them friendly to a degree as we dont want nuclear arms in the hands of
suicidal ragheads. Pakistan would not want that either unless really pushed.
The USA and allies will never win the battle in Afghanistan as they would like.
Some might say, yeh but look at Iraq. we won there. Won what ? All that happened was we made a regime change, not an American style democratic new mindset.
Iraq was never a threat to America but the sheites are happy for their intervention.
Bring our guy's home I say.
We in the west face a far more insideous threat to our way of life and is not being addressed. But that is a different subject.

Robert.

I don't think one can win a war against guerillas. If you can't identify your enemy, it becomes quite difficult.

If we start with the American War of Independence, can anyone name a war against guerillas which the military has won? The Malaya Campaign perhaps as the enemy weren't indigenous Malays (pre-Malaysia) but ethnic Chinese. Australian Forces were there for 13 years (or more - my B-I-L was there when I married Elisabeth in 1970 so that means we were there for at least 20 years)!

Afghanistan is and will probably remain a fuedal tribal ****heap, the Afghan 'tribes' have been killing each other for centuries, it is what they do best.
A few years intervention by the 'infidel' west will ultimately make no difference at all to the 'status quo' of Afghanistan. A countrys culture cannot be changed in five minutes, especially to an American inspired democracy, even an Islamic one. There's an oxy-moron for you 'Islamic Democracy'.

Americas stated goal in Afghanistan was to deny 'terrorist' training and support to its enemies post 9/11. This goal has probably been achieved, they moved to Pakistan, one of Americas allies !!

The British invaded Afghanistan in the 19th century, were forced out and slaughtered in their retreat, over 15,000 killed. There was one survivor.
The Russians invaded Afghanistan in the 20th century, were also forced out with over 60,000 casualties.
The 21st century sequel is America with its allies, including Australia, 'liberate' Afghanistan from the Taliban. So far allied deaths in Afghanistan approach 3000, I don't know how many injured.
Afghan casualties must number in the tens, hundreds ? of thousands. Certainly no winners here.

For me the whole mess was summed up by a picture in the Melbourne Age several years ago. It showed a group of Australian diggers on patrol walking through a poppy field. Here were our troops protecting a crop of opium poppies for the local farmers so that it could be harvested and turned into heroin. This owner of this 'cash crop' would then pay his cut to the Taliban who would use the money to help kill the Aussie troops guarding it in the first place. As a bonus (to the Taliban) the end product would then be shipped to Australia (and other countries) to help kill our own children.

Whilst 'realpolitick' may mean that Australia needs to show on ground support to our major ally, this has been done. Bring the troops home.


Deano

What makes you think the soldiers were protecting the opium crop? That's an odd conclusion.

has anyone asked "the boys" how they feel? every one of them volunteered and knew they probably end up in Afghanistan. They get extremely well paid and they all enjoy the adventure of warfare. Its only the media again beating up the situation and making maximum coverage of any event. Recruiting is at an all high. When I was soldier there was nothing we wanted more than a ****fight. Over there they get them often. The adrenaline fix is almost undescribable.This is not WW1 or WW2.Its a completely different scenario.I know no-one wants see another die or be injured but the waiting list to go war in afghanistan is quite long.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

When I was soldier there was nothing we wanted more than a ****fight. .

Do you have qualifying service? Bob edit If you don't you have no right to speak for those who have, if you do , you need to see a counsellor, I can recommend one to you.

I was behind our efforts in Afghanistan until I heard our foreign affairs (not politicians) experts discussing Pakistan after Bin was found and dispatched. We also just helped an ex SAS member obtain his shot firers ticket and his comments after multiple tours also have changed my mind.

On the first hand, why was Bin able to live in Pakistan so comfortably for so long? Our expert foreign affairs people I watched on various shows discussed this at length and suggested that if Pakistan is helping those in Afghanistan we are fighting it is now a waste of time and we should come home.

To that, the Pakistan doctor who took the blood to confirm the DNA of Bin is being held on treason. The USA has asked for him to be released to them along with his family to be relocated to the US. To this date I am unaware if the US has been successful. On that, I think we should not play cricket with them or any other sport and look at other embargoes until this doctor and his family have been released.

The SAS bloke told us about the tribal stuff in Afghanistan, too much to go into here, but you get the idea that once we leave it will all go back to as it was before and therefore my view is now that we are wasting our time, resources and putting our people at risk for no good reason at all any longer. We got who we wanted, lets come home.