Thread: bring our boys back or not

Originally Posted by DeanoH

Afghanistan is and will probably remain a fuedal tribal ****heap, the Afghan 'tribes' have been killing each other for centuries, it is what they do best.

I came across this quote awhile ago. I think it describes the structure of society in that region of the world perfectly.

Me against my brothers until a cousin comes;
Me and my brothers against my cousins until a neighbor comes;
Me and my brother and my cousins against the neighbor until a foreigner comes;
all of us against the foreigners.

I don't know the original source of the quote but I do know you don't change that way thinking by invading and imposing democracy. The concept is foreign to tribal society.

It's time to come home.

They've been following a program to hand over to the local military/police so if that can be done then they should come home.
What happens after that is their problem.
We're apparently going to be subsidising their government for some years.
Personally, I'm pretty pessimistic about the long-term results, but I'd like to think it hasn't been in vain.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I'd like to think it hasn't been in vain.

I think it has been.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I dont need counselling or anything like that, its how it is.

The wife of a friend of mine has been to Iraq several times to do counselling of troops (dunno about Afghanistan) in her role as a psych in the Army. Maybe I should ask her of the affect those paces are having on troops.

I do believe that the original quote was heard by Lawrence of Arabia and was
:- You, me and my brother against the world,
Me and my brother against You, and
Me against my Brother........

Hi,
for a modern foreign army fighting against local militia on their home turf it is always going to be a tough call.
Especially for the West, with the potential threat of media exposure to a sensationalist press tilting the playing field and seriously compromising their ability to overcome the odds against them.
Did our 'leaders' learn absolutely zilch from involvement in Vietnam?

cheers

What makes the West think that they can transplant democracy (something that took a long long time to evolve) into a region where feudal triballism has been a way of life for time immemorial. We are not fighting a conventional enemy, but one with less structure than the Vietcong, multiple factions, and fanatical religious zeal.

Bring our guys back, they've done a good job and did what they could in a hopeless situation. Unfortunately, the moment the coalition is gone, it will be almost as if they were never there within a short few months. All those lives lost for what

The War on Terrorism can NEVER be won until the root cause of Arab discontent is addressed. This is of course the way the State of Isreal conducts itself and the perception of double standards in the way the West, particularly the US deals with the issue.

I say sort the Isreal problem out and then leave them all alone, it is the only way there will be any degree of long lasting peace with the West. Yes they will still be fighting amongst themselves, but this has been happening since shortly after Muhammad died and deep denominational rifts developed within Islam. Sticking our nose into their problems will only be a repeat of what the British and then the Soviets went through with Afghanistan, resulting in a severe nose bleed.

Hi,
there is a wonderful cartoon, I think it is in one of the Lonely Planet guides on Afghanistan, where a group of be-turbaned, whiskery, sword wheeling vagabonds are cheering from there ridge top at the departing Russian Army.
The caption is 'At last we are free.'

The next frame depicts them all sword fighting each other, blood and guts, limbs lopped and total wild eyed mayhem.
The caption is 'To return to the 18th Century.'

cheers