If nothing else this thread has been a wake up call to use / misuse of recovery straps & methods.
Will, not you on the tractor is it ??
http://www.safetyrisk.com.au/wp-cont...ge-trimmer.jpg
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If nothing else this thread has been a wake up call to use / misuse of recovery straps & methods.
Will, not you on the tractor is it ??
http://www.safetyrisk.com.au/wp-cont...ge-trimmer.jpg
Saw that in an email, i'll try and dig it up in deleted items
Am only 2/3 of the way through this thread so apologise if I state something that comes later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by goingbush
If we were to use the equivalent of WorkCover rules the snatch straps would have to be replaced every 3 years and the old one destroyed by mechanical means.
Kinetic energy is an amazing thing. Railways used to use draught horses to move trucks and even trains around marshalling yards. The horses were not really powerfull enough (1 horse power) to move the trucks or trains from stationary, but used their weight to overcome the inertia and once the truck was moving the horse would continue to apply their energy to continue or accellerate the motion. The kinetic energy in a snatch strap should be used in a similar way, the tow vehicle moving forward just enough to apply sufficient energy to the bogged vehicle so it can overcome the enertia of the mud or sand infront of it. There should not be any motion or action that should be likely to break anything and if the resistance to motion is such that significant accelleration is necessary, then an alternative recovery method should seriously be considered.
The day will shortly be here when the insurance companies for our vehicles and clubs, will require a written risk assessment before we attempt a recovery. It is the way the World is heading!
Sorry Will, in this case you are misinformed. The D2 doesn't have front recovery points because of the crush cans between the chassis and bumper, apparently they are sufficient for winch loadings but not for snatch loadings. It is why D3 and D4 have a recovery point on the front mid-line of the chassis/subframe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.Wouldn't be hard with an angle grinder and a drill press, just build them out of heavy enouhg steel and have them mounted sufficiently, a 'rated' recovery point is built to a certain load capability, they are mostly just mild steel, so if you get flat bar in the right size it would not be a hard job to make them, personally i don't like snatching of the chassis rails of a vehicle though, that why we pull with the towbar which is in the middle and loads the chassis evenlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Disco Muppet
Your idea of using the middle of the bumper will dismantle the crush cans.
On a D2, a recovery point needs to go back to the chassis, perferably to a central point braced back to each chassis side rail.
Diana
And that is a the sad thing about the world we live in, that people see it fit to deem what other people do to be unsafe, what do they measure this against. All the rules we have in society are built around past accidents etc. thats why we have these guidelines so things don't happen again, but sooner or later someone will be lose their life because of all this OH&S stuff as the rescue service rush to fill out paper work before dragging them out of their sinking vehicle, thats an extreme example, but this thread is full of em :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
Sorry Diana i was unclear with that, i'm aware of the crush cans and the fact that no load should be placed on the bumper. i mean for the recovery points to be mounted to the chassis, behind the bumper, like the factory points on a D1 and D2 but more substantial, and hopefully reinforced along the chassis so the bumper mount holes don't get elongated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
Mr. LR your statement below is NOT extreme it is just plain ridiculous, Regards Frank.Quote:
Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.
Quote: " but sooner or later someone will be lose their life because of all this OH&S stuff as the rescue service rush to fill out paper work before dragging them out of their sinking vehicle, thats an extreme example, but this thread is full of em :twisted: "
In my opinion the ridiculus thing is that people think just because someone hasn't done a course in something they are unfit to do it?!? If a person does not do a driver training course with an instructor, yet passes the test on skill they have picked up through observation are they unfit to drive a motor vehicle? The people who created the courses learnt through practice, so whats wrong with me doing it?, noones life is in danger unless the back of the header rips off and is somehow catapulted towards the tractor shearing the cab off and taking me with it, no safety course would you prepare you for that IMO. I'm not knocking them, i will eventually do one, but they are not the be all and end all of society
Will
The problem is not that some people have innate common sense and endowed with parents who provide a wealth of appropriate and supervised experience. The Problem is that many people are not so well endowed with appropriate supervised experience or don't possess common sense.
Government's and industry's response is to require that everyone, irrespective of which of the above two groups they belong, requires training and certification to undertake particular activity.
It happens with driving and it happens with lots of other activity.
That you, a 17 year old, are capable and competent in any of those activities, should make your attaining those certifications easier but should not exempt you from the requirements of certification.
Diana
I worked for a number of years as a "Permitted Rigger" before I attained my Class1 Riggers ticket and did a Mechanics apprenticeship straight after school.Quote:
Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.
Working as a rigger you are responsible for the safety/well being of everyone in the vicinity and if you do something wrong and kill someone you can be charged and dragged to a Coroners inquiry and you could end up in jail if you are found to be at fault.
As a mechanic you are likewise responsible for the safety of the people driving the car/truck you have just repaired. In both trades you need to attend Tech. College to attain a level of knowledge that will allow you to perform your trade, safely and correctly.
Now I thought I knew all there was to know about mechanicking, I had been rebuilding engines, gearboxes and diffs from the age of 12. Same thing in Rigging, having worked as a permitted rigger for a few years I thought I knew it all.
I learnt things at tech. that I had no idea of and a few things I had seen happen on work-sites became clear, of why that poor bastard was killed or a load had fallen from the 18th floor and broke some bones. There is a right way to do things and there is the dangerous She'll be right mate way, and if you think you can go through life learning by your mistakes then one day one of them mistakes is going to take your head off, Regards Frank.
And that's not such a bad thing. Clubs need only undertake a generic risk assessment for each type of activity they undertake and then re-produce it whenever they repeat that activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
The risk threats involved with a recovery would be part of the overall assessment for the activity.
A Risk Assessment does not only identify the risk, but recommends procedures to minimise the risk. If the residual risk is too high, then the activity or that particular part should be abandoned.
This process really helps the creation of standard procedures and can prevent bad practice.
Insurance companies and the like generally just want to see that the risk has been considered and mitigated prior to the event.
I undertake Risk Assessments when wearing one of my many hats. It's a time consuming pain in the bottom, but I think it works.
Many of us used to undertake risk assessment in our heads as we went, but lots of folks don't (even though they think they do - I can name very experienced beach drivers who still like to attach snatch straps to tow balls simply because they've always done it that way and never had a problem).