Thread: this would make me very nervous, record gun sales in US

True, forgot about that one.
Still not the US

And again all the scared paranoid people crawl out of the woodwork. The strawmen you are sprouting have been thoroughly disputed by rigorous science (in previous threads).

Everyone I have ever met (personally) who has a gun for "personal protection" is also paranoid that the [insert non caucasian group here] are going to invade any day now...

The facts are that those who have a gun for personal protection are more likely to shoot themselves or a family member than an intruder. Allowing concealed or open carry of guns does not reduce crime.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Allowing concealed or open carry of guns does not reduce crime.

I'm not sure where you're pulling that from, because it's a known fact that concealed carry certainly does reduce crime in the States.
It has been stated that the States which have laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms have seen a decrease in crimes such as murder, assault, robbery, and rape.
Fact Check: Do concealed weapons lower crime rates? :: WRAL.com


What Marc Heim states in the video (posted in the previous comment by homa1) sums it up perfectly.

"The key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself and, if you don't have the tools to do that, then you're going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away, and the tool for that are guns."

Originally Posted by billy bob

Australia holds the record for the most people killed in one massacre.
35 at Port Arthur.
He was able to walk around uncontested and shoot people at will.
In the US someone would have had a gun.
Someone would have shot back.

The US has a massacre every few months. Imagining a John Wayne present at every one, ready to take out the baddie with a single well placed shot is, well, wishful thinking. The total number of people killed by hand guns in the US far outstrips that in Australia. Thank goodness for that. I'll put up with our local scenario thanks.

Originally Posted by Land-Rover

I'm not sure where you're pulling that from, because it's a known fact that concealed carry certainly does reduce crime in the States.
It has been stated that the States which have laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms have seen a decrease in crimes such as murder, assault, robbery, and rape.
Fact Check: Do concealed weapons lower crime rates? :: WRAL.com


What Marc Heim states in the video (posted in the previous comment by homa1) sums it up perfectly.

"The key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself and, if you don't have the tools to do that, then you're going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away, and the tool for that are guns."

From your link also:

Cause and effect?

But can concealed-carry laws really account for the drop in crime North Carolina has seen since 1995?
"I don't know if you can contribute it all to conceal carry," Hilton said, but he insisted some part of that drop in crime is due to more responsible, armed citizens. More than 275,000 North Carolina residents hold active concealed weapons permits, a little less than three percent of the population.
"The tools that we have show a long-term, steady decline in violent crime and property crime both nationally," said James Brunet, an associate professor and crime expert at N.C. State's Department of Public Administration. "We really don't exactly know why. We've had so many different crime policies over the past 20 years which may have contributed to the drop, but we can't disentangle them."
Brunet said it's unlikely that any one policy is the "magic bullet" that has lowered crime.
"There's no firm, solid evidence that the growth in concealed weapons permits has contributed to a drop in crime rates," said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston.
Among the reasons most criminologists think crime is dropping, he said, are better policing strategies, an end to the crack cocaine epidemic and high rates of incarceration. Even the fact that more Americans have cameras in their phones, and are able to capture crime as it happens, may have contributed.
Fox notes that crime rates have dropped even in states like Massachusetts, which have very restrictive gun laws.

So no your link does not support the contention that concealed hand guns do much to lower the crime rate.

Originally Posted by Land-Rover

I'm not sure where you're pulling that from, because it's a known fact that concealed carry certainly does reduce crime in the States...

...

"known" by gun advocates who are unwilling to accept the truth...

This is a comprehensive, independant study conducted in 2011 using data from the entire US.

The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws and the NRC Report: Lessons for the Empirical Evaluation of Law and Policy
Author(s): Aneja, A (Aneja, Abhay); Donohue, JJ (Donohue, John J., III)1; Zhang, A (Zhang, Alexandria)2
Source: AMERICAN LAW AND ECONOMICS REVIEW Volume: 13 Issue: 2 Pages: 565-632 DOI: 10.1093/aler/ahr009 Published: FAL 2011
Times Cited: 0 (from Web of Science)
Cited References: 29 [ view related records ] Citation MapCitation Map
Abstract: For over a decade, there has been a spirited academic debate over the impact on crime of laws that grant citizens the presumptive right to carry concealed handguns in public so-called right-to-carry (RTC) laws. hi 2005, the National Research Council (NRC) offered a critical evaluation of the "more guns, less crime" hypothesis using county-level crime data for the period 1977-2000. Seventeen of the eighteen NRC panel members essentially concluded that the existing research was inadequate to conclude that RTC laws increased or decreased crime. The final member of the panel, though, concluded that the NRC's panel data regressions supported the conclusion that RTC laws decreased murder. We evaluate the NRC evidence and show that, unfortunately, the regression estimates presented in the report appear to be incorrect. We improve and expand on the report's county data analysis by analyzing an additional six years of county data as well as state panel data for the period 1977-2006. While we have considerable sympathy with the NRC's majority view about the difficulty of drawing conclusions from simple panel data models, we disagree with the NRC report's judgment that cluster adjustments to correct for serial correlation are not needed. Our randomization tests show that without such adjustments, the Type 1 error soars to 40-70%. In addition, the conclusion of the dissenting panel member that RTC laws reduce murder has no statistical support. Finally, our article highlights some important questions to consider when using panel data methods to resolve questions of law and policy effectiveness. Although we agree with the NRC's cautious conclusion regarding the effects of RTC laws, we buttress this conclusion by showing how sensitive the estimated impact of RTC laws is to different data periods, the use of state versus county data, particular specifications, and the decision to control for state trends. Overall, the most consistent, albeit not uniform, finding to emerge from both the state and the county panel data models conducted over the entire 1977-2006 period with and without state trends and using three different models is that aggravated assault rises when RTC laws are adopted. For every other crime category, there is little or no indication of any consistent RTC impact on crime. It will be worth exploring whether other methodological approaches and/or additional years of data will confirm the results of this panel data analysis. (JEL K49, K00, C52)

Originally Posted by bee utey

From your link also:



So no your link does not support the contention that concealed hand guns do much to lower the crime rate.

I realise that, I was showing that the concealed carry does actually lower the crime rate, even if it is a small percentage.

I wish some people would do a bit of reading:

The United States has the highest rate of gun related injuries (not deaths per capita) among developed countries, though they also have the highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of officers.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence"]Gun violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

It's good to see that we're near the bottom of the list.